New Hire Info
07-30-2019, 01:43 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 148
New Hire Info
I just started off with Air Wisconsin and yes while there are posts on the forums about new hire training and timelines etc., I thought I'd start a comprehensive timeline from the get-go so people who do intend to apply here will have a good idea on the structure of things and some tidbits they may find useful.
People will possibly have varying insights and opinions so feel free to pitch in - this thread is designed to help people more than anything and give them a realistic view of what to expect.
So here's how it's gone so far.
Arrived in Phoenix for ATP/CTP training at CAE. Typically this will be your schedule:
Days 1 to 4:
ATP/CTP ground school - so I kept hearing this is NOT directly designed to get you through the written. Here's my take, it's a bit of both. You will see questions during the ground school that will be on the written test but other things will be foreign to you. The primary objective is to transition your perspective from GA to the airline/jet world and expose you to new information that you will be seeing.
There will be A LOT of new information; some things I'd never even heard seen/heard of before popped up and it is definitely drinking from a firehose. At the end of the ground school, there will be a silly mini written which everyone passes.
So in light of that, use Sheppard Air for the written. Air Wisconsin will give you ASA Prepware but everyone uses Sheppard Air.
Day 4 to 7:
Simulator sessions - you'll be put in a full motion Level D simulator however don't expect to be put in the simulator for the airplane you will be flying eventually. Again this is all about transition so you could end up in the ERJ-170 sim or CRJ-700 sim or Boeing 737 sim. The sims are a snapshot of what to expect in your actual training.
Also don't expect a schedule at your time of convenience; if they schedule you at 5am, then you're going in at 5am which means you are waking up at 3:30am. If they schedule you at midnight, you're going in at midnight and finishing at 5am. Welcome to the airline world, get used to it.
Now this is where I am going to be blunt; it is not to dent hopes or shatter dreams but give you reality and I am going to break this down into two parts:
Part 1 - your IFR knowledge has to be right up there. It doesn't matter if you are or aren't a CFII (although the latter would greatly help); if your IFR knowledge or ability isn't there you'll spend your time saying "what's that?" Remember this is no longer a silly little C172 or C182 going at 120mph; you're now going 500mph so if you're not up to speed on your IFR stuff, you'll fall behind and nobody is here to teach you IFR.
Part 2 - as I mentioned above, the 3 days of sim were only a snapshot into what is to come during actual training and I'll say this, it is EXTREMELY FAST. You fall behind, you get left behind, you get left behind, you're out. Nobody is there to hold your pinky and help you through. Flying a C172 or piston twin is a joke compared to this stuff. A G1000 system is for children if you think it'll help you at the airline level. The only good thing about the G1000 is the glass cockpit exposure but thats about it. There was one student who was a twin turboprop pilot with almost 2,000 hours and that student was overwhelmed so what do you think would happen to someone who is a slow learner?
The FMS itself is a different animal altogether and that alone takes time to understand and manipulate. Don't forget you're also in a high intensity two person cockpit environment where your procedures and briefings will be key. As an instructor, I watched students ignore checklists or items on checklists or not be procedural and those habits will come and bite you in the butt at the airline level. You miss an item on a checklist or don't do a checklist or don't have a procedural habit/structure, you potentially risk the lives of 50 passengers and also risk being violated. Yes the SOPs are there for you but ultimately it is about how YOU understand and apply them.
So in a nutshell this is what I have to say - if you are a slow learner or it takes you time to grasp things or you need to think about stuff, then the airline world is NOT for you. You're either an instinctive and natural pilot with a PIC mentality or you're not, there are no two ways about it. You can't "rehearse" for a checkride in this like you did in general aviation (and if you think you can, you're doing so at your own peril because of the sheer volume of information).
Again the sim was a snapshot of things but a pretty good idea of what you are in for. Don't come in thinking you're good, there are better pilots than you; stay humble and learn. Remember you're now both learning and understanding at the same time as opposed to general aviation where you were learning then twiddling your thumbs and taking your sweet time to understand something even if it took a week or 5 lessons for you to understand something. You are at the mercy of the airline's training schedule because they are paying for your training not the other way around. Instructors don't have time for one on one lessons.
You'll be either sent home or sent to Appleton for your next phase of training.
Tidbits and insight:
1) Phoenix - you'll be staying at the Radisson by the airport in Phoenix. The hotel is nice and tidy and has all the necessary amenities. Food is decent; if you want other food options, you'll have to Uber or take the train out to Tempe where a lot of nice restaurants are. You'll be given the airline discount at the hotel of 25% on meals which helps a little bit; average for a meal is about $16.
2) Clothes - take 6 weeks worth of clothes (if they send you to Phoenix you'll be there for a week then go to Appleton). For heaven's sake don't come in looking like a bum or unkempt or not showered. You're now a professional airline pilot so dress like one or close to it. You don't have to go all out in business attire, but a polo shirt or shirt, slacks/khakis are good attire. Don't be the dumb douche who comes in wearing jeans or shorts, nobody does that. For the men, grooming! Clean shaven and lose the facial fuzz!
3) CAE Phoenix - absolutely amazing facility and they really care about the quality of instruction (which is why they hire the best retired pilots and some active ones too). The ATP/CTP course is an FAA mandated checkmark on your airline training so it has to be done per the FARs. Here's the good thing, the instructors at CAE are PHENOMENAL. These are guys with 40-50 years of experience and multiple type ratings so take what they teach you and treasure it. The facility doesn't have a canteen but food is prepared fresh and kept in the vending machine downstairs. There's also a food truck aka The Roach Coach that comes in at 11:30am sharp and has a bunch of stuff or you can order in or make your own stuff at the hotel and bring it with you if you want to save money. There's also an abundance of free coffee which you will need!
4) Classmates - you will meet some incredible people from different aviation backgrounds and ages and if you mingle and stay humble, you will learn a lot from one another and cultivate friendships. These people will be working in companies you may want to go to someday so work with one another and hang out in your off time.
5) Appleton - you'll be at the Red Lion Paper Valley hotel in downtown Appletown. It is a very nice little area with restaurants and drinking establishments (don't drink during training!!!). Most of the restaurants are within a 10 minute walking distance from the hotel. If you need to do a Walmart run you'll have to Uber but the hotel arranges transportation to a local grocery shop on Mondays and Saturdays. About the hotel itself, its an old hotel but its tidy, breakfast is decent (you'll get 50% off) and they have the necessary amenities so it serves the purpose.
6) Pre-prep - if you know people who have material, get it from them, it helps. Come in here with some idea of the IAC (try to do flows), have an idea of the limitations and practice the profiles if you can. You may have no clue what the hell is going on but it will help you before you go in because you'll have an idea of it. As for the ATP written, start working at it 3 weeks in advance; they keep updating the question bank so more for you to learn and time is a luxury to prep.
On that note, I'll stop here and post another update soon...
People will possibly have varying insights and opinions so feel free to pitch in - this thread is designed to help people more than anything and give them a realistic view of what to expect.
So here's how it's gone so far.
Arrived in Phoenix for ATP/CTP training at CAE. Typically this will be your schedule:
Days 1 to 4:
ATP/CTP ground school - so I kept hearing this is NOT directly designed to get you through the written. Here's my take, it's a bit of both. You will see questions during the ground school that will be on the written test but other things will be foreign to you. The primary objective is to transition your perspective from GA to the airline/jet world and expose you to new information that you will be seeing.
There will be A LOT of new information; some things I'd never even heard seen/heard of before popped up and it is definitely drinking from a firehose. At the end of the ground school, there will be a silly mini written which everyone passes.
So in light of that, use Sheppard Air for the written. Air Wisconsin will give you ASA Prepware but everyone uses Sheppard Air.
Day 4 to 7:
Simulator sessions - you'll be put in a full motion Level D simulator however don't expect to be put in the simulator for the airplane you will be flying eventually. Again this is all about transition so you could end up in the ERJ-170 sim or CRJ-700 sim or Boeing 737 sim. The sims are a snapshot of what to expect in your actual training.
Also don't expect a schedule at your time of convenience; if they schedule you at 5am, then you're going in at 5am which means you are waking up at 3:30am. If they schedule you at midnight, you're going in at midnight and finishing at 5am. Welcome to the airline world, get used to it.
Now this is where I am going to be blunt; it is not to dent hopes or shatter dreams but give you reality and I am going to break this down into two parts:
Part 1 - your IFR knowledge has to be right up there. It doesn't matter if you are or aren't a CFII (although the latter would greatly help); if your IFR knowledge or ability isn't there you'll spend your time saying "what's that?" Remember this is no longer a silly little C172 or C182 going at 120mph; you're now going 500mph so if you're not up to speed on your IFR stuff, you'll fall behind and nobody is here to teach you IFR.
Part 2 - as I mentioned above, the 3 days of sim were only a snapshot into what is to come during actual training and I'll say this, it is EXTREMELY FAST. You fall behind, you get left behind, you get left behind, you're out. Nobody is there to hold your pinky and help you through. Flying a C172 or piston twin is a joke compared to this stuff. A G1000 system is for children if you think it'll help you at the airline level. The only good thing about the G1000 is the glass cockpit exposure but thats about it. There was one student who was a twin turboprop pilot with almost 2,000 hours and that student was overwhelmed so what do you think would happen to someone who is a slow learner?
The FMS itself is a different animal altogether and that alone takes time to understand and manipulate. Don't forget you're also in a high intensity two person cockpit environment where your procedures and briefings will be key. As an instructor, I watched students ignore checklists or items on checklists or not be procedural and those habits will come and bite you in the butt at the airline level. You miss an item on a checklist or don't do a checklist or don't have a procedural habit/structure, you potentially risk the lives of 50 passengers and also risk being violated. Yes the SOPs are there for you but ultimately it is about how YOU understand and apply them.
So in a nutshell this is what I have to say - if you are a slow learner or it takes you time to grasp things or you need to think about stuff, then the airline world is NOT for you. You're either an instinctive and natural pilot with a PIC mentality or you're not, there are no two ways about it. You can't "rehearse" for a checkride in this like you did in general aviation (and if you think you can, you're doing so at your own peril because of the sheer volume of information).
Again the sim was a snapshot of things but a pretty good idea of what you are in for. Don't come in thinking you're good, there are better pilots than you; stay humble and learn. Remember you're now both learning and understanding at the same time as opposed to general aviation where you were learning then twiddling your thumbs and taking your sweet time to understand something even if it took a week or 5 lessons for you to understand something. You are at the mercy of the airline's training schedule because they are paying for your training not the other way around. Instructors don't have time for one on one lessons.
You'll be either sent home or sent to Appleton for your next phase of training.
Tidbits and insight:
1) Phoenix - you'll be staying at the Radisson by the airport in Phoenix. The hotel is nice and tidy and has all the necessary amenities. Food is decent; if you want other food options, you'll have to Uber or take the train out to Tempe where a lot of nice restaurants are. You'll be given the airline discount at the hotel of 25% on meals which helps a little bit; average for a meal is about $16.
2) Clothes - take 6 weeks worth of clothes (if they send you to Phoenix you'll be there for a week then go to Appleton). For heaven's sake don't come in looking like a bum or unkempt or not showered. You're now a professional airline pilot so dress like one or close to it. You don't have to go all out in business attire, but a polo shirt or shirt, slacks/khakis are good attire. Don't be the dumb douche who comes in wearing jeans or shorts, nobody does that. For the men, grooming! Clean shaven and lose the facial fuzz!
3) CAE Phoenix - absolutely amazing facility and they really care about the quality of instruction (which is why they hire the best retired pilots and some active ones too). The ATP/CTP course is an FAA mandated checkmark on your airline training so it has to be done per the FARs. Here's the good thing, the instructors at CAE are PHENOMENAL. These are guys with 40-50 years of experience and multiple type ratings so take what they teach you and treasure it. The facility doesn't have a canteen but food is prepared fresh and kept in the vending machine downstairs. There's also a food truck aka The Roach Coach that comes in at 11:30am sharp and has a bunch of stuff or you can order in or make your own stuff at the hotel and bring it with you if you want to save money. There's also an abundance of free coffee which you will need!
4) Classmates - you will meet some incredible people from different aviation backgrounds and ages and if you mingle and stay humble, you will learn a lot from one another and cultivate friendships. These people will be working in companies you may want to go to someday so work with one another and hang out in your off time.
5) Appleton - you'll be at the Red Lion Paper Valley hotel in downtown Appletown. It is a very nice little area with restaurants and drinking establishments (don't drink during training!!!). Most of the restaurants are within a 10 minute walking distance from the hotel. If you need to do a Walmart run you'll have to Uber but the hotel arranges transportation to a local grocery shop on Mondays and Saturdays. About the hotel itself, its an old hotel but its tidy, breakfast is decent (you'll get 50% off) and they have the necessary amenities so it serves the purpose.
6) Pre-prep - if you know people who have material, get it from them, it helps. Come in here with some idea of the IAC (try to do flows), have an idea of the limitations and practice the profiles if you can. You may have no clue what the hell is going on but it will help you before you go in because you'll have an idea of it. As for the ATP written, start working at it 3 weeks in advance; they keep updating the question bank so more for you to learn and time is a luxury to prep.
On that note, I'll stop here and post another update soon...
07-30-2019, 03:24 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Position: 757/767 CA
Posts: 253
Dude, some of the best nights were spent drinking up and down the main drag in Appleton (I recommend the Apple Bar, the Leg Lamp bar, the Irish Pub around the corner, or even the hotel bar if you’re not feeling like making the three minute walk. We’d even buy 30 packs of PBR at whatever the massive grocery store they’d drive us to and take over the underground pool area at the hotel. Maybe relax a little? You make it seem like you’re training for an Apollo mission or test pilot school. Maybe it’s changed since my AWAC days in 2015, but I’m inclined to think not. Be an adult, pay attention, and have some fun while you’re there.
There’s also the Appleton Curling Club... It’s a mile or so away, but if you roll in on a Saturday you can curl with the locals who are more than willing to share expertise and Miller Light. Just sayin...
And... the Irish Pub has live music. It’s across from the Police station, so don’t get rolled up.
There’s also the Appleton Curling Club... It’s a mile or so away, but if you roll in on a Saturday you can curl with the locals who are more than willing to share expertise and Miller Light. Just sayin...
And... the Irish Pub has live music. It’s across from the Police station, so don’t get rolled up.
07-30-2019, 04:10 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 211
if you don't drink up there...you might be doing it wrong. Especially during the easy snoozefest that indoc is. Just don't be dumb.
Also the hotel has really gone downhill the past year or so with the brand change but the location is still great.
Also the hotel has really gone downhill the past year or so with the brand change but the location is still great.
07-30-2019, 05:37 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 524
Cleos, out the door to the right, best bar in ATW. Home Burger Bar has Karaoke on Saturdays iirc.
Dude, chill. Some of the best studying was done at the sports bar at the hotel with my classmates over beers.
It is of note that they are sending folks to CAE for ATP/CTP. Even last year the course was done by ZW instructors in ZW sims which was a great preview and prep for sims after ground school.
Come to training IFR proficient, with a 1st class medical that won’t expire during your training footprint, with your home life under control, and bring a good attitude. Drink beers, go to the Farmers market on Saturday mornings on College Ave in ATW, disconnect for a bit on the weekends and recover.
Rinse, lather, repeat.
Dude, chill. Some of the best studying was done at the sports bar at the hotel with my classmates over beers.
It is of note that they are sending folks to CAE for ATP/CTP. Even last year the course was done by ZW instructors in ZW sims which was a great preview and prep for sims after ground school.
Come to training IFR proficient, with a 1st class medical that won’t expire during your training footprint, with your home life under control, and bring a good attitude. Drink beers, go to the Farmers market on Saturday mornings on College Ave in ATW, disconnect for a bit on the weekends and recover.
Rinse, lather, repeat.
07-30-2019, 08:42 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 148
Lol alright, perhaps I should have said don't drink too much.
I heard indoc is straightforward from a number of people so not worried or scared.
Just want to make sure I do it as best as I can and go through as I have a responsibility to my family and child so failure isn't an option so to speak.
Not saying I don't want to have fun but having I went cold turkey 10 years ago so I'd be the odd one out in a drinking crowd lol...I am looking forward to the Mile of Music though!
The hotel is meh...also word of warning, supposedly change/money is being stolen from rooms so don't leave small change in your bags or anywhere.
I heard indoc is straightforward from a number of people so not worried or scared.
Just want to make sure I do it as best as I can and go through as I have a responsibility to my family and child so failure isn't an option so to speak.
Not saying I don't want to have fun but having I went cold turkey 10 years ago so I'd be the odd one out in a drinking crowd lol...I am looking forward to the Mile of Music though!
The hotel is meh...also word of warning, supposedly change/money is being stolen from rooms so don't leave small change in your bags or anywhere.
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