Scheduling inflexibility
04-02-2018, 09:35 AM
#11
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by cmrflyer
It’s a shame the pilots were never able to negotiate a decent contract with management. How did the flight attendants manage to negotiate with them?
04-02-2018, 09:44 AM
#12
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
It’s ridiculous blanket statements like this that keep the animosity alive between the two pilot groups. There have been plenty of AS pilots fighting for change and improvement. To refer to the whole group as clowns, spineless or weak is just stirring the pot and fueling tensions. Not to mention that it’s a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. If the you demanded excellence in all aspects of your aviation career, why did you ever go to VX in the first place? No contract, no union, sub par wages even by AS standards, out of order seniority issues, limited growth, failing business model and no profits. ******, took “you guys” 10 years to start to address any of it. So did you just “overlook” these issues the past 10 years?
A couple of interesting reads:
https://www.thebalance.com/top-reaso...ir-job-1918985
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericjac.../#48a1c2945c45
Also, don't forget that VX pilots brought APLA on board. That airline was BUILT on the backs of the current pilot group, they aren't second rate, they aren't punks, they aren't regional scum, or any other preconceived labels some AS pilots have muttered.
AS has lots of great pilots that want to fight the good fight, but lets not forget that AS has probably achieved less than any other airline in operation today. 85 years and the current contract has so many head scratching sections. Lets not even get started on scheduling lol. VX pilots might have made less hourly, but the QOL isn't even in the same universe. We are all under one roof now, lets fight together and make some real legit changes around here.
04-02-2018, 10:13 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
I agree with your point of all fighting together now that we’re one company and that’s why I say divisive comments like, AS pilots are spineless, weak or clowns, doesn’t do any good. To your other point of accepting less because you were happy and thought your QOL was enough to supplement the other lacking areas of the old VX “agreement “...... That’s the exact reason we find ourselves in the current situation at AS. Enough AS pilots thought their QOL was good enough to accept less. So once again, POT, MEET KETTLE. It doesn’t matter if YOU think your QOL was good, someone else may have thought it was garbage and not nearly enough to cover up the inadequacies in other sections of the “agreement “. My point is simply that for every VX pilot that comes on and calls an As pilot weak for accepting less because they were happy, there is an AS pilot that can justifiably turn around and say the exact same thing to the VX pilot. Both groups, over the course of their existence, have been willing to overlook the terrible parts of their contracts or agreements in order to gain what they thought was QOL. Be that, geographic, days off, sustainability, profitability, commutability.... whatever made you apply in the first place. So do we sit here and call each other weak, or do we move on and fight together for something better???
04-02-2018, 12:04 PM
#14
Gear handle manipulator
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: B-737 First officer
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by Jetlife
That is because a measurable percentage of the pilot group eats the crap that management serves, and they LOVE it. They are more concerned at whether a pilot says Alaska on the radio and not Alaskan, rather than scope, scheduling and QOL.
04-02-2018, 12:18 PM
#15
Gear handle manipulator
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: B-737 First officer
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by riktaroller
Those of us who work at Alaska are very aware of how inflexible scheduling and adjustment to a schedule can be at Alaska. Ever since they “supposedly relaxed and opened the trade desk”, less of my trips get picked up in open time, unless they’re a day turn, which was the same before. Maybe the trade desk is making picking up less needed “although denied” seems to be the only response I get.
For the sake of discussion what could we hope for in the next contract or maybe it’s time to suck it up and quit while the hiring gives us all choices.
What are rules like at other airlines?
Had a 1.5 year Spirit FO who said he averaged 17-19 days off, 80 credits and the ability to trade until his trips were commutable, TRUE for other spirit pilots?
Same senority at Alaska would be 14-16 days off, 80 credits and no ability to get commutable trips after or during bid awards, in my observation.
Other great (sarcasm) things about Alaska, only way to drop a trip below 75 credits is to have another pilot grab it, otherwise denied.
Want to drop a 3 day for a 4 day, denied, no reserve coverage to drop the 3 day.
In other words, your going to fly 75 hours at least every month and it will be the schedule your awarded.
Reserves, you don’t want to be on reserve, be prepared to be flown up to 90 credits every bid, especially in Seattle.
Am I missing any other Alaska scheduling joy?
For the sake of discussion what could we hope for in the next contract or maybe it’s time to suck it up and quit while the hiring gives us all choices.
What are rules like at other airlines?
Had a 1.5 year Spirit FO who said he averaged 17-19 days off, 80 credits and the ability to trade until his trips were commutable, TRUE for other spirit pilots?
Same senority at Alaska would be 14-16 days off, 80 credits and no ability to get commutable trips after or during bid awards, in my observation.
Other great (sarcasm) things about Alaska, only way to drop a trip below 75 credits is to have another pilot grab it, otherwise denied.
Want to drop a 3 day for a 4 day, denied, no reserve coverage to drop the 3 day.
In other words, your going to fly 75 hours at least every month and it will be the schedule your awarded.
Reserves, you don’t want to be on reserve, be prepared to be flown up to 90 credits every bid, especially in Seattle.
Am I missing any other Alaska scheduling joy?
04-02-2018, 12:32 PM
#16
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by SmoothLanderJ
You aren't missing anything. I've been here going on 4 years and our scheduling flexibility is some of the worst. I'm almost embarrassed to compare my schedules with my buddies at the "Big 3" including SWA's. Especially when it comes to block vs credit. Trip trading and trip dropping are virtually non existent. Other than day for day vacation trading, the flexibility pretty much ends there unless the trip you want to trade matches EXACTLY like the trip in open time. There are a few exceptions here and there but its definitely not the norm. Along with industry standard compensation and scope, scheduling flexibility and work rules are equally important. We'll see in two years how the next contract goes!
Every group has a few of "that guy". I would just tune out anybody who makes inflammatory blanket statements about the other group. AS ate a big poop sandwich when everybody else was going BK, and VX started an airline when other airlines were being shut down and senior dudes had no place else to go. Both AS and VX were profitable lately, so there shouldn't be much excuse to lose money after the merger dust settles.
04-02-2018, 01:39 PM
#19
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
What everyone here seems to conveniently forget is there is a bunch of people who will accept less for the "benefit" of living in SEA, PDX, LAX or ANC. Alaska has no problem filling classes.
Those whose priorities revolve around other than the base location are the ones voting with their feet. You'll always have to deal with that group...the ones who will accept less before moving out of Gig Harbor.
Those whose priorities revolve around other than the base location are the ones voting with their feet. You'll always have to deal with that group...the ones who will accept less before moving out of Gig Harbor.
04-02-2018, 01:44 PM
#20
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,289
Originally Posted by Packrat
What everyone here seems to conveniently forget is there is a bunch of people who will accept less for the "benefit" of living in SEA, PDX, LAX or ANC. Alaska has no problem filling classes.
Those whose priorities revolve around other than the base location are the ones voting with their feet. You'll always have to deal with that group...the ones who will accept less before moving out of Gig Harbor.
Those whose priorities revolve around other than the base location are the ones voting with their feet. You'll always have to deal with that group...the ones who will accept less before moving out of Gig Harbor.
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