Not trying to stir the pot but I am curious as to where the senior VX guys logged their previous Airbus hours? No doubt there are plenty of highly experienced pilots on the VX side due to airline casualties. I can empathize being a product of Braniff and Eastern parents.

I think a lot of the initial cadre came from US Air

US Air
America West
Jet Blue
United
Delta
Northwest

Just to name a few...

Moose, I hear you buddy, glad you had a choice. I'm going from a single digit seniority number to a triple digit number.
Btw, not by choice.

I have been asked to refrain from engaging on this subject as it is highly controversial. This will be my last post on this subject. People are so emotional charged, no one thinks or acts logical. This is my first merger, it will not be my last. In the next merger the VX pilots will be represented by B&K. Alaska’s proposal will be adopted almost in its entirety, except for the backend feathering. Everyones longevity will be respected, including the VX pilots. Closing JFK is a tough pill to swallow, it will have the biggest impact on the VX pilot group, not the ISL. In base no one will be impacted by this merger, nothing will change. No captain will be reduced to a FO. Your bidding power will be unaffected. Scheduling, well that is a totally different subject and most likely will not be fixed until the next negotiations. I don’t think there is one Alaska pilot happy with our proposal, I doubt there are many VX pilots happy with the Alaska proposal. In the end, if this outcome sends you into fits of rage you need to move on. Everyone is hiring, there is a very real possibility you could find your new seniority number, at your new company, rendering you a significantly better career. Good luck to everyone, we will all be OK.

Who has asked you to refrain?

Skybus
Independence Air
Usa 3000
And a plethora of guys with foreign bus time.

Just so I understand, you are saying that the arbitrator will roll almost fully in favor of the Alaska proposal? Is that what you are saying?

That's what he's saying. I think the statement will most likely be the case for the most part.

Really? Ask Airways East how the arbitrator viewed their out of the earth proposal.

I love getting handed a Trump Card... thx😉

But he also says that your bidding power will be unaffected which, if true, can only mean relative. MEA is saying two different t things that are diametrically opposed to each other.

How bought who in that case. In this case, what dose VX expect? 3 bites of the apple. Pay a robust contract, and skip to the top of Alaska's list. Who's over reaching? We shall see shortly.

Robust contract?
Hahahaha that’s a good one.

Robust manure pile is more accurate

Let’s see, VX didn’t propose to skip to the top of the list, while AS basically proposed for a pseudo staple like application. In fact, the VX proposal has me losing in both longevity and relative. Yeah that’s a win right there. The contract we inherited is a joke, albeit the payrates that we all received. The scheduling section is a joke and the only thing positive is the vacation, which is still worth less than industry standard. AS touted superiority. AS needs to come out of hibernation and realize the only superior thing is the tailstands holding up those 707s, I mean 727s, no I actually mean 737. 🤔😏.

Yes, we will see.

So what was this non-binding rule book then? DAL contract 2.0 give me a break.

The VX “contract” has no bearing on whether or not the AS contract is a robust pile of manure

JetBlue’s first contract is going to make our “legacy” contract look like a joke. But, what can we expect? It’s alaska we are dealing with, ah it’s okay I drive to work, I go where they tell me to go, it’s the arbitrators fault, I’m happy with what they give me, it’s pointless we’ll lose anyways. Ignorance, defeatist attitude and apathy are the reasons we have what we have. It’s time to pull our collective heads out of our a**** and focus on 2020. Stop the SLI bickering, nothing you say here changes anything.

Ok I need help. I am failing to see your exuberance with the B6 contract. They will make .47 cents more an hour then me. By this time next year I will be making $2 and a half dollars more then them, on an arbitrated award. From that point they will trail the behind SWA, the #4 contract, at a rate of 3% a year. In 2020 rates at SWA 283 to 269 at B6. Medical still garbage, 5hr day Ok, long term med garbage, scope ok but honestly I think scope is a waste of time, my opinion only. Still well done B6 but you fade fast during robust times. What is there to crow about though. You don’t think the big 3 and SWA are coming in well above this really really soon?

Or do you just like to dog Alaska?

The point where all rational pilots stopped reading

You’re boasting on about an arbitrated award? Seriously? Do you really want to compare what B6 achieved in its short union existence compared to AS? Do you think you’re gonna get something grand in 2020 with an arbitration clause in the contract? It’s your comments that makes AS look like a dog. How about just saying they did a great job and that you hope 2020 will bring the same fortunes to AS.

No these comments wear me out. Bag on the AS pilots. Arbitration clause, what are you talking about.

I think he meant the bidding power will remain the same because Airbus guys will be bidding amongst themselves as will the 737 guys..

Your overall System Seniority will change but in practical terms your Base/Aircraft Seniority will remain unchanged. At least for a few months (years?)....

That's how I read it....

You've made it all too obvious that it's not "Alaska management is hard as nails" like you all have been claiming - It's the pilot group that is preventing a solid contract.

Truth of the matter, you don't want a good contract. You don't see value in it. Scope? You're at the top of the list, it's worthless. Good work rules? Can't see that on a spreadsheet - worthless. You want a subpar contract so you can keep getting invites to Brad's summer cookouts.

Thanks for making it abundantly clear to us.

Looks like 737 drivers get to enjoy the transcon redeyes and HI for 13/hour less than JB pilots. Congrats JB! Nice first contract.

Any idea when the arbitrators will Rule on a final seniority list?

No later than 09/13... So, at 1700 Pacific time on 09/13. At least it's not a Sunday this time around. :mad:

Can someone post each group’s proposal to the arbitrator?

Is longevity given a higher weighting in the combined list?

It’s going to be a disaster no matter what the outcome is. One big fat ****ed off pilot group.

TRUE... but guess what, get over it...

all the angst and bitterness that is building around this is crazy. I could see it if this airline was a quality career but it isnt and it never was. It is like fighting over which Denny’s you are going to work at. It is just a job. It doesn’t matter whether you are number 1 at Dennys or number 2000 it is still Dennys. Crazy misplaced ego you all have

Longevity is not given more weight per say via the ALPA merger policy. It is one of the the three items required to be considered in designing an SLI. In the past several mergers longevity has been used with different weights. Most of them have used around a 15% weight. Which was the VX side proposal. The AS side proposed a 70% weight I believe.

The proposals are very long and would be impossible to post here. But to give you the gist of them...

Alaska says that VX pilots received a huge windfall by getting to become Alaska pilots and adopting their contrat. That they have massive advantage in longevity and that should be primary. Except for their first officers which should get special feathering above VX first officers despite lower longevity.

Virgin side says that although weight should be allowed for longevity a more consistent hybrid model should be used set of past precedents. That carry through the whole list.

Both sides put in captain seat protections.

The proposals create a pretty diverse results depending on where you are on the list. There is no point in predicting because depending on the decision you could see a very different outcome.

Everyone is going to be irritated about the final list. So honestly this discussion is pointless.

It’s hard to get over a stalled career.

I agree with you yet again... do something about it! You can’t change the Arbitrators ruling but you can control how you will feel/behave.

Are you
A. going to be miserable or
B. get over it, move on, apply elsewhere if need be... it’s a choice

Think about it, the only one that will be truly “happy” is the #1 Pilot on the combined list, everyone else will probably loose out at varying degrees😉

Hard to find someone in the airline industry who can't claim a stalled career. Consider yourself lucky if you're just stalled and not furloughed, or worse out on the street starting over. The only possible exception I can think of is FedEx.

If Alaska doesn’t put a rudder on this ship we’ll probably all get furloughed

OCCP will for sure be miserable. Already is and is the most negative toxic poster on here. Imagine what that's like in the cockpit?
For me...I'll get over it and move on and deal with it as it comes. Happiness is a choice. Dealing with negative things in life is a constant struggle everyone goes through..some deal with it better than others.

UAL said the same thing in our merger and didn’t get it. “Superior airline” isn’t part of merger policy either. Everyone stayed within 5% of their same seniority percentage despite United having almost 4 times the number of widebody airplanes.

Even with longevity weighted at 35% I was placed with a United pilot hired 7+ years before me. Zero United pilots who were placed senior to me are younger than me.

I hate to tell you, but if you’re banking on longevity to be heavily weighted, its not going to be. I’d be shocked to see anyone move more than 5-10% anywhere on your list.

Exactly! Look at the last 4 mergers and with the exception of WN (special circuumstance) relative seniority was king😉.