I agree with you about not taking it to a personal level but I’d also say don’t even bother debating it either. What’s done is done and all of us have a 0.sh!t % chance of changing the outcome. After the dust settles on this SLI, if you’re so unhappy with the results, you have a few options. 1.) you can demand better representation and elect new union reps. 2.) get involved in the union yourself and fight to solve all the issues you feel you’ve been misrepresented on. 3.) leave the company. I know it’s hard not to get emotional and pick your side over this because this directly effects our QOL. Whenever I feel myself going down the path of team mentality, I think of those callous fukcs, B n B and how little they care about our QOL. The worse ours is, the better theirs gets. The only way we solve this is as one team. Safety in numbers, we learned it in preschool, let’s use it.

It's easy and can be fun throwing punches at each other on a public forum hiding behind the keyboard but some of you all need to grow up. The fact of the matter is that both sides are going to fight for the best deal possible. I wouldn't expect anything less. Arbitration is never good for either side and we as line pilots have zero control, so everyone just chill and show a little respect for one another. After all, we are all on the same boat now.

I may be biased but I have to agree that Alaska pilots really didn't gain much from this acquisition. The measly little pay raise as a result of JCBA wasn't worth the hassle IMHO. I can't speak for all VX pilots but I'm sure you'll miss the culture and the scheduling flexibilities but all in all, the VX folks made out okay given the circumstances. None of us asked for this merger but here we are, so let's deal with it and move on. I bet the company is having a field day reading this forum. They love to divide and conquer.

Many of us have lived through Kasher and a myriad of disappointments of mediocre contracts but we are still kicking. As for VX folks, many of you have been around the block a few times and this isn't your first rodeo. I get it. Let's all focus on 2020 and be good to each other. I'm looking forward to having a cold one with you all someday and the first two rounds are on me!:)

You see, that's the thing tho... That scheduling flexibility was priceless!!!

Seriously, if I had to choose between VX's combined renumeration and AS's combined renumeration, I would without a doubt choose VX. AS payrate was higher but at VX, because of our "scheduling flexibility" and our "Premium" and "Critical" Pay matrix, our W2s were similar or (gasp!) better than that of many an AS pilot with the same longevity. Also since we were on the cusp of negotiating our first ALPA contract, collectively we were VERY optimistic about the future..

Also, many of our AS brothers have it in their heads that they somehow saved us from our certain demise but let me remind you that nothing could be further from the truth....

Remember that having built up an impressive west coast route structure, a solid reputation and an impressive loyalty base, we became that sexy Virgin :) who was all but certain to marry the fairly well off, good looking, young suitor (with whom we would have been happier and much more compatible).

Unfortunately, in swooped the fat, middle-aged, balding guy with the greasy hair, with more money who, much to our horror, 😯 was able to convince our parents that he should win the rights to our hand in marriage.

I get it, it's just business, but from our perspective, you guys crashed our party!! :)

We are just line pilots and none of us were in the room when the decision was made, however there are some facts to consider. VX board of directors decided to sell the airline. Why? There must be a myriad of reasons but one major factor was that VX wasn't a revenue generator. Initially, there were 3 bidders for VX-Alaska, jetBlue, and Delta. Delta pulled out early due to reasons unknown to me but I'm going to guess it was due to DOT/DOJ constraints. I don't know about you but jetBlue doesn't look like a very appealing dance partner but to each his own. Who is this "young suitor" that you are referring to? The only two who came to the party were: the middle-aged, balding guy with the greasy hair, with money and the young, average looking guy, who just gets by financially. The third person would have been a greaseball Wall Street slime ball who probably would have dismantled VX and sold it off piece by piece. That's just my guess. I'm not saying that Alaska saved VX pilots from demise but I'm also curious as to who this young stud is because apparently, he never showed up to the party.

I think Bizniz has something akin to Riddle syndrome. Way overestimating their, “sexy virgin” image. On campus you may have been a 10 but off..... not so many suitors. I kid I kid, same team!! ��

JetBlue my friend, JetBlue...

Any good business plan has several exit strategy and the one you ultimately choose will depend on how things unfold once you are up and running.

VX board chose to sell and from an investor's perspective, they made out like bandits.... good for them.

JetBlue might not be an appealing dance partner for you, an Alaska pilot, but for a VX pilot pre-merger, it wasn't even close the appeal that JetBlue had over AS.

As airlines go, financially they are in a good position, we have the same fleet type, they have pref-bid, their pay-rate was better than VX with QOL provisions much better than AS and ALPA is also on property with contract negotiations underway, etc, etc.. I think I could go on and on..

While I am no fan of AS buying us I was even less of a fan about Jetblue!
Jetblue really isn’t as financially sound as you might think... in 2009 or 2010 they received a $400mil infusion from Lufthansa and if you look at their financials that is the only reason they are still around!
That money was repaid by ‘15 because LH wanted it back for their own operation... so, Jetblue NO Thank you

Hahaha
You are exactly correct my friend. "On campus" tho, JB and AS was fighting over her, so much so, AS was willing to blow his trust fund on her and he did..How she was perceived off campus was irrelevant. :)

As it stands, I think VX was a solid 8.5 to 9 😉

I agree wholeheartedly tho that we are on the same team now and our fortunes are now inextricably linked together.

Fair enough, I take your point and I'll agree to disagree..

It's not unusual for really good companies to have a rough financial patch in their history tho, so that by itself wouldn't make me wary of JB.... Virtually all the legacy airlines that are now darlings had to declare bankruptcies... in some cases twice..

They paid back the money, right? Were they forced to repay early or was that timetable a part of the agreement for the cash infusion?

Dude, are you on crack? Virgin was Branson's 10th string concubine. He would only touch her when all his nine strings were on the rag. Let me paint a picture for you. Branson slept with you twice max and then he dumped you because you were 1) fugly and 2) a leach. You were only sexy after 10+ tequila shots and passed out. You should thank your lucky stars that Eskimo hooked up with you.
As for your ignorant statement about hooking up with jetBlue, that is the dumbest thing I've read on here so far. I highly advise you to research your future career before you commit and even make a dumbass statement like that. Yeah, you belong at Virgin.

There you go getting all personal and emotional. Branson started the airline. Business decision/gamble plain and simple.

By your assertion, AS had had about 10 tequila and passed out when they decided to give their arm and a leg in order to acquire Branson's fugly leach....

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and to at least 2 airlines, maybe for different reasons, we were sexy as hell. Don't kid yourself..

Because of my career at VX and a few smart investments, I'm already set personally and financially.... I would say I did pretty good with at least 25 years to go. How about you?

Glad I didn't miss much while I was gone. VX wasn't turning a profit so Branson and his boys sold it. They saw an opportunity and made out like bandits. Alaskan took the bait and the rest is history. The SLI will come out and none of us will have a say in it. Once again, virgin boys and girls will get another windfall and the undesirables such as all biznizz and occp will cry foul. Too bad these clowns won't resign since they can't seem to get hired elsewhere besides the likes of skywest and compass. Not saying that y'all VXers are undesirables but there are quite a few of y'all out there who fit the bill. You know who you are. This place will bring a new meaning to dysfunctional family.
To all bizniz, Alaskan didn't spread their arms and legs to acquire the failing airline that you flew for. They paid big $$$ for a pos airline to keep jetblue out. If you consider a $20 street corner STD infested hooker sexy, then by all means.

Oh, now that you have no real come back you are going to tell me how much bigger your schlong is? Once again, are you on crack?

Hahahaha
Calm down 2loud, I didn't say AS spread their legs, I said they gave an arm and a leg, as in they "overpaid"...

VX was worth a lot to AS because they determined that if they didn't acquire us, the consequences to them would be problematic.

I am sure that in history, there have been $20, street corner, STD infested hooks who have found husbands "on the job"!(damn 2Loud you are mean lol)

Hate the player, not the game 😉

What?!! Are YOU on crack?
How old are you? 10? hahaha

It has been long established that most people will respond more emotionally than logically when engaged in debates or arguments.

You my friend is testament to that.. :)

And here I was thinking the “yikes” thread was getting stupidly pretentious...

Well, they shut that one down so apparently Nancy of the sociopaths moved to this thread. :D

I'm making less than I did when we were all virgin, even with the pay raise. Your, unfortunately our, company is a joke and its idiots like you who makes it that way.

Seniority Proposals
 

I have very low expectations but even if I come out ok I’ll still cry foul just to pi$$ you off, boy. You have a lot anger towards us. Like someone said earlier, Alaska guys spend too much time mad at each other or other pilots instead of fighting for a better contract. There’s not one thing I like about Alaska but after 15 years in the industry I’m just over starting at the bottom again. I’m going to be a bitter, sour soul for the rest of my career!

Purposefully being bitter is just a gigantic waste of life. Why not use the company for what it is, (paycheck, health insurance, retirement, travel benefits etc.) and then go home and forget it exists? Too many guys are getting wrapped around the axle about the identity of this airline. The branding, the paint on the airplanes, the advertising..... That sh!t is way above our pay grade. We just fly what they put in front of us. Going out of your way to be angry is gonna bring you to an early grave.

Indeed. Why are so many people trying to make this into a Hutu vs Tutsi tribalism thing? It's embarrassing.

I'm an outsider and I gladly left AAG eight years ago and never looked back. The VX proposal is absolutely preposterous!!! It would be a huge windfall for just about every VX Pilot. There is no way that a VX Pilot with 11 yrs. of seniority should be paired with a pilot from AS that has been there 30+ years.

Let's see some figures then. CA or FO, pay step, $/hr, and state what you made at VX vs Alaska working the same number of hours. Also, if you are so unhappy at Alaska and assuming that you are even employable, why not seek employment elsewhere? Your anger will shorten your life, bro.

Never let your coworker smoke crack and negotiate!

Same reason why you posted a gazillion comments on the Yikes forum that is completely hypothetical.

Shoot for the moon and hope you get over the fence. All the arbitrator can say is no, so why not go for the gusto?

2loud spent too much time giving up scope and a host of other gains that EVERY SINGLE OTHER MAJOR AIRLINE HAS, and is spending too much time being angry at VX. Another perfect example of the sheltered bubble that some AS pilots live in.

True, I'd do the same if I were high on crack. It's never enough. Regardless of what some of the Virgin pilots say, they did indeed benefit immensely from this acquisition and yet they are still shooting for the moon.

2loud seems like an angry person but you have to appreciate his/her no bs attitude. True, he/she needs to pull it back a bit at times.
As for your comment, you really don't have any credibility or the right to stand on a soap box and preach. Let's see. You flew for VX, a non-unionized pilot group except for the last few months just before the buyout, when you guys realized that you needed ALPA protection as an acquisition was on the horizon. You willingly worked for a company that undercut everyone and chose to work for subpar wages with no concrete work rules, thereby brining down the rest of the industry. If anything, you guys lowered the bar substantially than anything. You didn't even have a contract. What does that make you? A hair above a scab!

Its Alaska pilots that ageed to that it was in your contract not vx's. I've been alpa for 22 years and never seen the crap that is in Alaska's contract it's horrendous for a "legacy" airline.

VX undercut who slugger? AS? Have you even looked at a vx ticket price? Do some homework, get your facts right before you jump on a high horse. I swear you guys are so far up your own ass it is unbelievable. VX achieved more in 10 years than AS did in 85. Your contract is absolutely comical, and VX pilots have YOU and pilots like you to thank. No concrete work rules? We are losing work rules under your CBA!!!!! If VX pilots are a hair above scabs, what are the AS pilots that voted scope away? You are a pathetic human being and I don't even know you. It is sad...

Virgin America was a LCC. Low Cost Carrier=undercutting. Enough said. Your boy screwed up by overcharging pax hence your airline wasn't profitable. VX achieved more in 10 years than.....is that why your boy decided to ditch your beloved airline? Achieving means profits and thriving in business. VX didn't turn a profit until the very end, which was minuscule. VX was acquired and went bye bye-dead! You can achieve all you want but doesn't matter when you are history. The last man standing wins. Work rules include retirement, pay, and over all compensation. True, many of the our scheduling work rules were gutted during Kasher (before my time) but you are only referring to your scheduling/bidding rules when you are talking about work rules, right? Alaska pilots never voted away scope because we never had concrete scope. Get the facts straight. You decided work for a start up low cost airline and do as Branson said. You didn't have a contract and you had zero protection. Indeed, you chose to work for a company that under cut the rest of the industry so yes, you are a hair above a scab.

Wasn't binding arbitration during a merger or acquisition a byproduct of the Kasher award in 2005? That's where everything was gutted. As much as you want to blame every AS pilot for a sub par contract, their very will to continue to fight for better rather than roll over and accept the company offer was a gamble that didn't pay off at the time.

It is so cute how you lack even the most basic understanding of finance and business. My "boy" I assume you mean Branson? You realize he wasn't a majority shareholder right? He didn't choose to sell the airline, the majority shareholders did. Again, I ask you, please do some reading and homework so you can actually add value to a conversation without making BS up as you go, it makes you look ridiculous. AS fares are lower than VX in most competing markets, so what does that make AS? An ULCC? Please, show me where they undercut AS or any other airline for that matter. Show me a market that VX entered and undercut every airline that served that market, and drove them out due to ticket prices, I'll wait...

Please list these achievements...

What part of word LCC do you not understand? LCCs exist to undercut except your boy and the BOD couldn't gage the market correctly, ending up in demise. They wanted to play like SWA and set an image that they are hip and cheap except they went into markets that were already too saturated and were in over their heads. In essence, you answered your own question in your last uneducated comment.
Alaska may not play nice with its employees but they know how to run a business and turn a high profit. You give yourself way too much credit for your intelligence, or lack there of. I was hired by FedEx, SWA, jetBlue, and Virgin, who hires anyone with a heart beat (I digress) but chose to come to Alaska for various reasons. I did my homework, which you apparently didn't do. Yes, I understand that a foreign company cannot be the majority shareholder. It's common knowledge that you seem to uphold as if you are the only one in the know. Your boy isn't stupid but you seem to be very gullible. You do know that Branson made out like a bandit on this deal, right? He played you guys as if he didn't want any part of this deal. No CEO or businessmen truly care about their people. They put on a smiley face and tell you how much they care but it's a ploy to get you to bring home the bacon for them. It's the same in the military as well. Employees are always the pawns and he played you guys like a banjo. So genius, you got anything else for me before I go to work?

You're right about everything except the very last line. They weren't/aren't comparable to scabs. Scab is a term for only one kind of person...someone who will willingly cross your picket line to take your job.

Save the scab term for those who earn it by their actions. There are still plenty of real scabs floating around the industry. Some employed in the most unusual places.

I don't think Work was talking about ticket prices, Jetlife. He was talking about VX undercutting Union airlines pay/benefits for 9 plus years. That put downward pressure on the wages/benefits of all the other airlines.

Remember, Alaska's lawyers tried HARD to strangle VX in the crib. They were the leaders in attempting to get your certificate revoked based on foreign ownership. That forced the big Dick to diversify his ownership through various shill "partners." Just because you made a profit the last year of independence doesn't make up for the tidal wave of red ink you had before that.

AS management turned out to be the biggest suckers in the whole deal overpaying by a factor of 3 for a bunch of leased Airbii and the threat of B6 jumping on the West Coast. B6 wouldn't even be ON the West Coast if the geniuses at Angle Lake hadn't abandoned the Jet A slots at LGB.

No matter how the SLI goes down people are going to be upset. You just have to try to get along. There are still guys on the property who are upset over the Jet A merger and that was 1987. The thing to consider is how many Jet A pilots ended up on the 2nd floor. Things that make you go "Hmmm...."

I think a true Virgin with eloquent scripture needs to step up to the plate and lay down the facts on all of the history of Virgin America from the head to the anus. There seems to be many uninformed Alaskan’s on here that do not know the true inside story.

I think the same needs to be done for the AS side with regard to what happened after the Kasher award and why the contract is in the state it is. There seems to be just as many uninformed VXers that continue to blame all AS pilots for the current contract. Remember, once something is taken from you, ie, pensions, work rules etc. it’s very hard, if not impossible, to gain them back.