jet Blue and Alaska?

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08-01-2018 | 12:07 PM

#21

rickair7777

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From: Engines Turn or People Swim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baradium

They would be fools to give up all their scope to allow a merger to complete. And the formerly widespread Alaska battlecry of "scope doesn't matter" isn't going to work on them.

I agree. But capping scope at current AS levels would be reasonable, wouldn't really hurt JB pilots, and wouldn't directly cost the company(s) anything. Terminating existing feed contracts would cost big bucks. The value of the merger to management would likely outweigh the loss of some future outsourcing. Especially since now is not a great time to outsource, there really is a pilot shortage at the regionals.

Fringe benefit: AS gets some scope!

08-02-2018 | 04:04 AM

#22

MusicPilot

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From: Driving a Bus for Recreational Pleasure.

Scope isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. It sounds nice and makes you all cozy inside, but in the end it will not stop management from a merger/buyout. If it’s in the BOD’s best interest it will get done. Might be a headache, but the union and management will find a way to get it done.

08-02-2018 | 06:41 AM

#23

ShyGuy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicPilot

Scope isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

Thought it’d be a cold day in hell before a VX guy would say scope isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on.

08-02-2018 | 07:01 AM

#24

KnockKnock

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicPilot

If the language is right and all encompassing, scope is very valuable. I agree that every management team will exploit any loophole that exists but that’s true for anything in any contract. It’s all in the language. I still fly with guys who say, “scope isn’t worth the paper it’s written on” and I tell them, we may as well throw out the whole contract because the same thing applies to all sections. Even a well written contract can be exploited. Does that mean we don’t want one?

08-02-2018 | 07:34 AM

#25

Blue Dude

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

Rare for a pilot group to block a merger, usually they come to some sort of compromise (although it's possible that some potential mergers were never attempted due to such contract issues).

Show me the money and maybe you can buy a scope waiver. I think they'll find that the price to be paid for loosened scope will be too high for the perceived benefits. I don't know too many B6 pilots who would be thrilled by a AS merger anyway, so it's not as though it would be an easy sell to begin with. Absolutely it would be a fight.

08-02-2018 | 11:38 AM

#26

Bugaboo

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From: Jet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Dude

I think you have an inflated opinion on a pilot groups “say” when it come to company finance or strategic moves.

08-02-2018 | 12:41 PM

#27

KnockKnock

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugaboo

I think you have an inflated opinion on a pilot groups “say” when it come to company finance or strategic moves.

Agreed. If managements listened to their pilot groups, the shotgun wedding between AS and VX would have never happened.

08-02-2018 | 01:00 PM

#28

MusicPilot

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From: Driving a Bus for Recreational Pleasure.

I guess United, American, and Delta could never merge/acquire jet Blue. Does B6 scope specifically state seats or weight? (I ask because I’ve not seen the full language). Now ask yourself how United was able to merge with Continental. CO had a 50 seat scope clause. UA was flying 70 seaters. Like I said, scope isn’t worth the paper it’s written on because there’s always a way. Now, I’m talking mergers/acquisitions. Keeping them off property as a stand-alone is a different game. AS needs an east coast presence and B6 needs the west coast. It’s a good fit that should easily go through the DOJ.

08-02-2018 | 01:51 PM

#29

Fleet Warp

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Wasn't dumping JFK the first thing AS did after buying VX? Why would they want B6?

08-02-2018 | 01:52 PM

#30

Blue Dude

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugaboo

I think you have an inflated opinion on a pilot groups “say” when it come to company finance or strategic moves.

Read the scope clause. It prevents a AS/B6 merger without a JCBA. And that JCBA will require a loosening of the scope clause to allow Horizon or Skywest to continue to operate for the combined carrier. They can have that loosened for a cost, but it's an established fact that they will absolutely need the pilots' "say" over whether and on what terms any proposed merger goes through. Period. We paid for that scope clause and we're not letting it go without a lot more money flowing our way across the table.