Terrible ethics
04-07-2019, 11:18 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Nobody is saying that PIC ISN’T a good thing. But changing the rules after the deal has been made is unethical. Arguably, it’s breach of contract. Are you really OK with that?
I understand that the original deal was different than the one you (or I) would have wanted them to make, but are you really OK with management simply voiding the previous deal when they change their minds or - alternatively - that ‘bait and switch’ had always been the going in plan?
I understand that the original deal was different than the one you (or I) would have wanted them to make, but are you really OK with management simply voiding the previous deal when they change their minds or - alternatively - that ‘bait and switch’ had always been the going in plan?
How was Pathways written? Into your offer letter, the CBA, or just some side letter best effort thing by mgt? If it’s the latter, they almost always have a weasel clause that allows the program to be modified as necessary by mgt.
04-07-2019, 04:34 PM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,292
Originally Posted by NavyFlyer
I fly on AS often and have numerous friends that work there. I generally had respect for your management team (as an outsider) because I (kind of) feel like they practiced what they preach.
But no more.
I have friends that are in your Pathways program with Horizon, and I’m embarrassed at what a laughing stock and sh*tty program that truly is. Your management team locks people in as future AS pilots, and then keeps moving the goal post further away on them.
Congrats, we’ll hire you at Alaska. But no, you can’t interview as an off the street hire and get here sooner without pulling your guaranteed job offer through the Pathway’s program away. Even though your credentials are great (and we’ve already hired you), I wouldn’t give up that guaranteed job offer for our other, harder, interview process that has no guarantees! Thanks for staying a Horizon employee for another three years.
Or, Congrats, we’ll hire you, only to now (as of yesterday) require you to have 1,000 PIC at Horizon before we bring you onboard. So for those FO’s who were “hired,” don’t wait to upgrade and enjoy your quality of life knowing you have a job in hand. Because it’s not there until you get hours that weren’t required when we “hired” you...
How bogus is this place!?! It’s not the requirements (1,000 PIC) that frustrate me. It’s the fact that they are changing the requirements of those already vested and “hired” into the program. They waited 8 months to make this announcement, so guys could have made life choices to upgrade sooner if they’d known the requirements when interviewing.
What a trash move by angle lake. Your management team doesn’t behave and act as they preach with their core values. What an embarrassment.
I will never recommend them to any friends as a place to work. This is the 4th bogus move that I’ve seen that is just insulting to people who strive to do their best every day, for a crappy management team that doesn’t seem to care about anyone but themselves. Not impressed.
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But no more.
I have friends that are in your Pathways program with Horizon, and I’m embarrassed at what a laughing stock and sh*tty program that truly is. Your management team locks people in as future AS pilots, and then keeps moving the goal post further away on them.
Congrats, we’ll hire you at Alaska. But no, you can’t interview as an off the street hire and get here sooner without pulling your guaranteed job offer through the Pathway’s program away. Even though your credentials are great (and we’ve already hired you), I wouldn’t give up that guaranteed job offer for our other, harder, interview process that has no guarantees! Thanks for staying a Horizon employee for another three years.
Or, Congrats, we’ll hire you, only to now (as of yesterday) require you to have 1,000 PIC at Horizon before we bring you onboard. So for those FO’s who were “hired,” don’t wait to upgrade and enjoy your quality of life knowing you have a job in hand. Because it’s not there until you get hours that weren’t required when we “hired” you...
How bogus is this place!?! It’s not the requirements (1,000 PIC) that frustrate me. It’s the fact that they are changing the requirements of those already vested and “hired” into the program. They waited 8 months to make this announcement, so guys could have made life choices to upgrade sooner if they’d known the requirements when interviewing.
What a trash move by angle lake. Your management team doesn’t behave and act as they preach with their core values. What an embarrassment.
I will never recommend them to any friends as a place to work. This is the 4th bogus move that I’ve seen that is just insulting to people who strive to do their best every day, for a crappy management team that doesn’t seem to care about anyone but themselves. Not impressed.
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If you sign up for the flow, you take the good with the bad. In many cases the upside for the pilot is that he can get to mainline without putting in the effort or jumping through the hoops. Also upside for those who would never get hired OTS.
Don't like it? Don't play the regional game. It is what it is.
04-07-2019, 06:13 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: Cirrus CA
Posts: 224
Terrible ethics
I couldn’t care less about the required minimums.
I do care about changing the requirements almost 8 months after introduction of the program. AS managers aren’t complying with their company core values, and are moving the goal post as they see fit.
We all know why they are doing it (to staff the regionals). I just wish they implemented this program from the beginning, or started with people hired through the Parhways program from here forward.
I don’t like them NOT complying with their verbal contract. It’s disingenuous and not befitting a company with these written core values.
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I do care about changing the requirements almost 8 months after introduction of the program. AS managers aren’t complying with their company core values, and are moving the goal post as they see fit.
We all know why they are doing it (to staff the regionals). I just wish they implemented this program from the beginning, or started with people hired through the Parhways program from here forward.
I don’t like them NOT complying with their verbal contract. It’s disingenuous and not befitting a company with these written core values.
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04-07-2019, 07:56 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by NavyFlyer
I couldn’t care less about the required minimums.
I do care about changing the requirements almost 8 months after introduction of the program. AS managers aren’t complying with their company core values, and are moving the goal post as they see fit.
We all know why they are doing it (to staff the regionals). I just wish they implemented this program from the beginning, or started with people hired through the Parhways program from here forward.
I don’t like them NOT complying with their verbal contract. It’s disingenuous and not befitting a company with these written core values.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I do care about changing the requirements almost 8 months after introduction of the program. AS managers aren’t complying with their company core values, and are moving the goal post as they see fit.
We all know why they are doing it (to staff the regionals). I just wish they implemented this program from the beginning, or started with people hired through the Parhways program from here forward.
I don’t like them NOT complying with their verbal contract. It’s disingenuous and not befitting a company with these written core values.
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04-07-2019, 08:41 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: Cirrus CA
Posts: 224
Terrible ethics
To be honest, I know jack and squat about other airlines flow through programs. I’m fairly new to this game. I guess I’m just naive and thought companies would follow through on their agreements.
Silly me. Lesson learned.
This is my first time even hearing that companies do this (change their agreements mid-way through). I think it’s morally wrong. And in this case, it’s affected a few of my friends and it frustrates me on a personal level.
I know you may not care—I’m not asking for sympathy. My friends (the ones hurt by this) aren’t even asking for that. I just wanted to make sure that if a pilot hiring manager from AS looks at this thread, that they know that I think they’re pieces of sh*t and disingenuous. And I hope some wannabe AS pilots read this thread and know that the management team there is only about themselves and that they don’t practice what they preach.
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Silly me. Lesson learned.
This is my first time even hearing that companies do this (change their agreements mid-way through). I think it’s morally wrong. And in this case, it’s affected a few of my friends and it frustrates me on a personal level.
I know you may not care—I’m not asking for sympathy. My friends (the ones hurt by this) aren’t even asking for that. I just wanted to make sure that if a pilot hiring manager from AS looks at this thread, that they know that I think they’re pieces of sh*t and disingenuous. And I hope some wannabe AS pilots read this thread and know that the management team there is only about themselves and that they don’t practice what they preach.
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