full of luv

It was for a few in my reserve squadron. If you you wanted to be based in LAX or SEA back in the late 90's there wasn't much better in terms of holding those bases quickly from new hires status.

Packrat

Because it ISN'T the type of flying. Its the mentality of Angle Lake. They have a REGIONAL mindset and the result is the route structure. Do you have any idea how long it took Greg Saretsky to get us to Hawaii? 6 or 7 YEARS after he first brought the idea up. "The yields are too low! It'll be filled with mileage freebies." Same song with LAS.

How did they groom senior managers? They all had to do a term of office at Horizon. In Brad's case it was in Accounting. Who do you think is behind "expanding" by adding ASMs and fee for departure RJs instead of more mainline airplanes? Thank a bean counter.

Anyone with wider vision gets squeezed out of the building...Saretsky, Keola Pang-Ching, etc. Throw in the Jet A boys taking over the 2nd floor and a pattern emerges.

Its not the flying, its the REGIONAL culture at Angle Lake that makes AS the 737 regional. As long as that attitude prevails in the puzzle palace they'll require a "poor sister" contract as compared with the Majors.

KnockKnock

It took SW many many years to get to Hawaii after it was first conceived. Does that make them a regional? JB is almost our doppelgänger on the East Coast. Are they a regional? You speak of Saretsky as if he’s some type of visionary that was pushed out. He went up to WestJet, and screwed those pilots over. Oh sure, he got widebodys in WestJet paint but they're flown by contract crews not WestJet pilots. Is that the kind of out side the box thinking we need here at AS....? Not to mention he was fired from there too.

Back2future

Doppelgänger is a stretch:

JetBlue was founded in 1998, it has 3800+ pilots and is getting ready to fly transatlantic.

Alaska was founded in 1932, it has 2800 pilots, and is shrinking back into its Seattle shell because “it’s tough out there.”

KnockKnock

JB has mostly 1 fleet of narrow body a/c. AS has mostly 1 fleet of narrow body a/c.
JB focus is east coast with a sprinkling of international flying. AS is West coast with a sprinkling of international flying.
JB top CA pay is $264. AS top CA pay is $266.
JB top FO pay is $177. AS top FO pay is $179.
JB 3800 pilots. AS 3100 pilots.
Looks pretty similar to me....
As far as AS shrinking, show me your info. We've definitely slowed growth but haven't shrunk. So I stand by my doppelganger statement.

THE SHAFT

The largest fallacy is comparing hourly pay rates, and this has been to the detriment of the AS group for some time. When you compare contracts or “doppelgänger’s” maybe look beyond Section 3. The money is made in the work rules and job protections allow peace of mind, neither of which seem to have been a priority until recently.

av8or

They have 242 AC, we have 238... they don’t have 700 more pilots than us to cover four airframes. Wonder why they have so many more pilots and hiring prob double what we are?
Also, they have 151 firm orders of new aircraft 2018 through 2025.... RIGHT NOW.... we’ve pushed the latest “fleet plan” to 1st Quarter of 2020..... which is always subject to change, and even then, we’ll be at the back of the line. AND they’re doing DOMESTIC service with those current A/C. They haven’t even started transatlantic service yet.
We ARE, however pulling out of Love field,... no wait.... we’re expanding service into Love.... no wait... pulling out.... hang on... maybe cutting. 😳

Also, they have a scope clause, and paid redeye override, (($13/hr), min 4hrs/day for training, 100% pay and credit for DH, 5 hrs pay/day vacation, 10 HR RAPs, 2:30 short call time, 14 hour long call time, 30-35 cents more per diem/hr, etc. Yep.... identical twins. 🧐

KnockKnock

Yes gentlemen, we have much work to do on our contract. You guys get easily wrapped up in tangents. JB and AS have many many similarities. Similar type of flying, similar fleet size and airframe type, similar pilot group size, similar pay scales, similar market cap, etc. etc. We even have the same percentage of malcontents that post pi$$y rants on APC They do their business in the East, we do ours in the West. We can dissect the contracts and look at all the difference but my point is we are two very similar companies neither of which fit the “Regional” model. SQUIRREL!!

NewGuy01

Wait. An airline that doesn’t base its staffing model on pilots working during their time off?

How can it be!?


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RiddleEagle18

JB has almost 4000 pilots. The last list came out July 1st and it showed 3925 and we have hired two classes since then.

We will have 4200 by the end of the year and projected to hire 400-500 next year.

“Sprinkling of international”? Might want to take a look at the JB route map again. 40 destinations outside the lower 48.


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