Garbage Airline Keeps Cutting
06-30-2021 | 12:13 PM
#32
Banned
Joined: May 2018
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06-30-2021 | 12:23 PM
#33
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,888
Likes: 684
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
It will happen, they know they have too, they are just playing their hand. First you will hear, early next June, that we are at an impasse, expect a strike or three more years of negotiations. Four weeks later there will be news of a TA. The economy or a merger could impact the timeline, If both hold serve, it will play out very close. We have an awesome negotiating committee, they are not budging. Relax, enjoy, flying less would probably help on both fronts.
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But in this day and age, few airlines want to actually go all the way to the mat. Too disruptive.
06-30-2021 | 02:44 PM
#34
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 683
Likes: 18
It will happen, they know they have too, they are just playing their hand. First you will hear, early next June, that we are at an impasse, expect a strike or three more years of negotiations. Four weeks later there will be news of a TA. The economy or a merger could impact the timeline, If both hold serve, it will play out very close. We have an awesome negotiating committee, they are not budging. Relax, enjoy, flying less would probably help on both fronts.
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And if they do just buy Hawaiian, then don't we just get sodomized with yet another arbitrator-awarded wet dream for the company JCBA?
What nobody (and yes I've asked this of our elected representatives) seems to be able to explain is what the company's motivation is to negotiate at all. ALL of the urgency is on our side of the table, and ALL of the leverage is on theirs. Attrition from the bottom of the list has never been enough of an issue, even in the midst of record hiring at the other majors, to present an action-worthy data point to the company. There will never be a shortage of regional pilots who would settle for any step up from their current shop, and as long as we have bases in PDX/ANC/SEA there will be locals who apply and who probably don't care that commuting to our schedules is a death sentence (or at the very least, grounds for an inevitable divorce). The long and the short of it is that we have virtually nothing with which to force their hand. As much as I'd love for the company to be terrified of our custom-wrap RV and all our unity cookouts, I just don't see it.
Somebody change my mind.
06-30-2021 | 03:23 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
It will happen, they know they have too, they are just playing their hand. First you will hear, early next June, that we are at an impasse, expect a strike or three more years of negotiations. Four weeks later there will be news of a TA. The economy or a merger could impact the timeline, If both hold serve, it will play out very close. We have an awesome negotiating committee, they are not budging. Relax, enjoy, flying less would probably help on both fronts.
🥃🥃
🥃🥃
06-30-2021 | 07:19 PM
#36
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 325
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I also have asked this of our union guys and have never gotten a good answer about why the company has any motivation to concede to any of our requests. All of your points are spot on. Airplanes are moving, seats are filled, and there is no shortage of applicants. If I were the company I’d never give an inch either. There would be no reason to. I greatly respect our Union guys and girls for the work they do and I hope they prove me wrong.
Why does this absurd idea that there will ever be a strike at a major airline, let alone the one that's counted on to deliver essentials to all the sh!thole nowheres in the state of Alaska, keep getting perpetuated? It will never happen (legally). Stop giving it attention like it's something that is realistically possible in this country in this century . And captains, I'm tired of hearing about how much you're contributing to your "strike fund," as if the strike that will never happen in the first place would last more than an hour.
And if they do just buy Hawaiian, then don't we just get sodomized with yet another arbitrator-awarded wet dream for the company JCBA?
What nobody (and yes I've asked this of our elected representatives) seems to be able to explain is what the company's motivation is to negotiate at all. ALL of the urgency is on our side of the table, and ALL of the leverage is on theirs. Attrition from the bottom of the list has never been enough of an issue, even in the midst of record hiring at the other majors, to present an action-worthy data point to the company. There will never be a shortage of regional pilots who would settle for any step up from their current shop, and as long as we have bases in PDX/ANC/SEA there will be locals who apply and who probably don't care that commuting to our schedules is a death sentence (or at the very least, grounds for an inevitable divorce). The long and the short of it is that we have virtually nothing with which to force their hand. As much as I'd love for the company to be terrified of our custom-wrap RV and all our unity cookouts, I just don't see it.
Somebody change my mind.
And if they do just buy Hawaiian, then don't we just get sodomized with yet another arbitrator-awarded wet dream for the company JCBA?
What nobody (and yes I've asked this of our elected representatives) seems to be able to explain is what the company's motivation is to negotiate at all. ALL of the urgency is on our side of the table, and ALL of the leverage is on theirs. Attrition from the bottom of the list has never been enough of an issue, even in the midst of record hiring at the other majors, to present an action-worthy data point to the company. There will never be a shortage of regional pilots who would settle for any step up from their current shop, and as long as we have bases in PDX/ANC/SEA there will be locals who apply and who probably don't care that commuting to our schedules is a death sentence (or at the very least, grounds for an inevitable divorce). The long and the short of it is that we have virtually nothing with which to force their hand. As much as I'd love for the company to be terrified of our custom-wrap RV and all our unity cookouts, I just don't see it.
Somebody change my mind.
06-30-2021 | 07:25 PM
#37
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 927
Likes: 2
From: This side of the dirt.
I also have asked this of our union guys and have never gotten a good answer about why the company has any motivation to concede to any of our requests. All of your points are spot on. Airplanes are moving, seats are filled, and there is no shortage of applicants. If I were the company I’d never give an inch either. There would be no reason to. I greatly respect our Union guys and girls for the work they do and I hope ya they prove me wrong.
Self Help
07-05-2021 | 07:41 AM
#39
Perennial Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 14,183
Likes: 238
Yep. You cannot advocate a change in the status quo once negotiations are underway. That includes simply following the CBA more reliably or advocating not doing certain actions - even if those actions are discretionary under the CBA.
https://casetext.com/case/atlas-air-...of-teamsters-4
So unless you want to screw over your own Union just…don’t
Of course, a union is allowed to educate its members about their contractual rights and safety obligations, and in that context, it may not be a problem to call for strict compliance with the contract. A union may not, however, encourage strict compliance with the terms of an existing agreement in an effort to gain leverage in negotiations for a new or amended contract. When a union changes the status quo in aid of such an effort, the district court may enjoin the union's conduct. That is just what happened here with respect to blocking out, short-notice sick calls, and overtime.
Atlas Air, Inc. v. Int'l Bhd. of Teamsters, No. 17-7172, 14 (D.C. Cir. Jul. 5, 2019)
Atlas Air, Inc. v. Int'l Bhd. of Teamsters, No. 17-7172, 14 (D.C. Cir. Jul. 5, 2019)
Since voluntary conduct can be part of the "status quo," the pertinent question in this case is what the pilots normally did before the Union informed Atlas of its intent to negotiate an amended CBA. See, e.g., Delta Air Lines, 238 F.3d at 1309-10 (encouraging pilots to decline optional overtime assignments violated the status quo). In other words, the question is what pilots normally did before the Union assertedly began trying to change the status quo. Atlas's statistical evidence shows that, prior to February 2016, pilots frequently departed before the scheduled time and only rarely departed precisely on time, and after February 2016, the inverse was true.
Second, the Union argues that blocking out on time is not illegal, but instead ensures that pilots are "in compliance with [Federal Aviation Administration] rest, flight and duty time regulation." Union Br. 51. That may be so, but the issue is not whether pilots should block out on time; it is whether pilots altered their prior practice of blocking out before the scheduled time, when possible. And the answer to that question, the district court fairly concluded, was yes.
Atlas Air, Inc. v. Int'l Bhd. of Teamsters, No. 17-7172, 17 (D.C. Cir. Jul. 5, 2019)
Second, the Union argues that blocking out on time is not illegal, but instead ensures that pilots are "in compliance with [Federal Aviation Administration] rest, flight and duty time regulation." Union Br. 51. That may be so, but the issue is not whether pilots should block out on time; it is whether pilots altered their prior practice of blocking out before the scheduled time, when possible. And the answer to that question, the district court fairly concluded, was yes.
https://casetext.com/case/atlas-air-...of-teamsters-4
So unless you want to screw over your own Union just…don’t
07-05-2021 | 03:43 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
Unity can never overcome Stupidity…Stupidity is the label for each and every Alaska Airlines pilot hired or merged that has not been strictly following our CBA from the day they showed up. To include each and every section no matter how inconvenient it is….For the 75% that have not been following it or who have been cherry picking it…It is too late for you..Enjoy the treatment you get from the ceo all the way down to your base chief cheerleader…pathetic
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