They won’t. They’ll live with the attrition. Are you leaving? You said no. A solid 1/3 of the airline is pretty much capped out at 12th yr pay. That crowd is staying (though I had 2 senior to me leave). Next is the crowd that the new contract will try to get to stay (though some will still leave), the mid seniority crowd of 5-9 years. 4 yrs or less? Revolving door. AS will have to sell its bases (PDX and ANC being sole major pax carrier bases) and its large SEA base as reasons to come and stay here. Sounds like they’ve been doing that already. I wouldn’t be surprised if one day it goes to zip code hiring.

My point of reference was a "plausible" contract. I can't envision these people going out on a limb or doing anything visionary. They're looking at (industry average -15%) as their baseline. If they really need to they might do +15%, but massive schedule flexibility, part-time options, or massive bonuses ala AA WO I think are way too far off their cognitive reservation. They'd shrink first.

The problem with shrinking is that you cannot control it. Departures will inspire others, worsen QOL for those who stay, and soon you'll have a death spiral on your hands.

I think Alaska pilots like you and Joe need to adjust your thoughts about management. They may be shrewd, but they are not self-destructive. Making management understand that having a work and pay environment that meets or exceeds the big 3 is vital for the airline in this pilot market. It's mutually beneficial.

My career plans are none of your business.

Also, I find it hilarious that the guy who finds himself in the minority opinion all the time thinks he has the sentiments of the pilot group figured out.

Be careful with expectations and this airline.

Although AS is a 90 year old airline, as late as 2013, it only had about 1400 pilots. In essence, a legacy airline in name, but really, only a small, punching above its weight, "regional" airline in nature, who historically, has shrewdly used the "Alaska Discount" secret sauce to keep its pilots in check.

In all the difficult periods AS has been through, the one trump card they've always had, is a good supply of PNW, and West Coast pilots with a strong desire to work for "That Great PNW Airline" - Alaska Airlines.

I believe this has allowed them to push the boundaries (in their favor) of the management/pilot relationship, because for the longest while, no matter how bad it got in the eyes of their pilots, AS knew that the great majority would always stay.

The unprecedented attrition these days however, brought about by the push of a deteriorating QOL for their pilots, as well as the pull of unprecedented employment opportunities elsewhere, has resulted in a paradigm shift, and it seems as if AS is having a hard time coming to grips with this.

Whether they are truly sincere in the current resumption of negotiations with the union, or, it turns out that it was simply a smokescreen to get them through the summer flying (or up to the point when we're in a recession), will tell us how much of a mindshift they've undergone when it comes to dealing with their pilots.

It is obvious what the correct thing to do in this current environment is.... I just hope that they don't cut off their nose, to spite their face.

Yes I've been pointing that out for a while. I think anybody who talks to FO's or has friends who are FO's can see that playing out. A line pilot right now probably has a better sense of resignations 8 weeks out than the CP office.

I've concluded they're not as shrewd as I once thought. They are very much good at travelling in their well-worn rut but seem to have trouble going off that path... even when it's starting to look like the bridge is out and maybe they should try the ford instead. The ford is harder but it doesn't involve a long drop into the water. Maybe the union can edumucate them. I find it rather alarming that they don't seem to be able to see where this is heading... they basically need to hand the pilot group a somewhat industry-leading contract right now to break the death spiral. They're going to lose the 30-somethings anyway, maybe they can keep the 10+ year CA's who are applying and interviewing (yes I know some).

What scheduling program does AS use? Heard rumor PBS is coming…anyone have an update on when that is expected to happen?

We use line bidding. I heard a rumor that we’re gonna buy American. Rumors are plentiful in aviation.

PBS if done right could be implemented in the future. It can be beneficial for both parties.

Thanks! Is there only one bid window at AS, or do they have a second one?
Wow! That’s a rumor I hadn’t heard yet. Time will tell.
I’ve never used PBS, but my best friend is at JB and likes it. It works for him and makes the bid process pretty easy…about 15 minutes and he is done.

Does reserve (I’m a new guy starting training end of Oct) bid differently than line holders? Are you able to waive days off to get more work days in a row reducing the number of commutes in a month? How flexible are the schedulers?
Would anyone be willing to show what the reserve schedule looks like?
Soooo much to learn…Thanks in advance!

PBS fixes nothing if the trips are still constructed in a detrimental non-commuting kinda way (early start, late finish) which is still now a majority.

If you are reasonably senior (top 60 or so %) you will be able to at least pick your days off for the most part which is a highlight.

That fixes a big something in my case. I’ll reluctantly trade crap pairings for being able get the days off I need. There are 3000 different sets of priorities out there. Be careful with the blanket statements. I trust our negotiators are doing their level best to look out for our cumulative interests.

Outside of holidays, almost 100% of non-reserve pilots can pick THEIR days OFF under PBS. And I mean that in the sense that from month to month, it's much easier than line bidding to get your target off days, as needed.

Obviously, getting weekends OFF will be difficult below a certain seniority, but it won't be impossible, especially if you're willing to settle for the weekday trash pairings.

Reserve doesn’t bid any differently than line holders. The company will publish “open flying” lines (uncovered lines after line bidding finishes) and the reserve lines at the same time. Look for the reserve line that suits your time slot/days off and then bid accordingly.

You are able to swap reserve days around to create a block of more days off, depending on reserve coverage. It’s been a little while since I’ve been on reserve, but I usually had limited success with swapping my days. Not sure how it is currently.

Not sure what you meant with your other question? Flexible in what way?

The latest reserve schedules, in SEA, show 55 choices of reserve lines, 11 of those being long call lines. Each one has different days off/on combinations with the most of each being 5 days in a row. Each one also has a period of only 2 days off in a row.

Hope this information helps. Welcome aboard!

Sorry for being snarky in my other post, I just meant that there are plenty of rumors in aviation and they’re not always accurate. There is a good chance we will switch to a PBS system, it’s something that is being negotiated.

Plan for what we have currently though.. it’s a line big system that then has two trading windows where you can attempt to trade trips in a seniority system. It’s not really reliable as a super junior person, and most the time any day you would want to trade into will be closed, unless you’re just trying to get a random weekday day off.

Then is the open flying lines and reserve bidding. Open flying lines are made up of extra pairings and trips that drop for conflict and vacation. Reserve lines have “12 days off” each month, although they’re not calendar days, they’re blocks of time (48 hours, etc). You can try and move days around to have 6 reserve days in a row.

Welcome aboard!

Thanks, and no worries. What’s an airline without some good rumors. What I meant about scheduling and being flexible is probably not what is used at AS. One of my previous employers had a couple of people in the scheduling office that would work with you one-on-one if you needed a day moved around here or there. Line bidding is completely new to me. It looks simple enough, but not much flexibility to get the specific trips you want based on how you need your month to look when it comes to time off.

If I understand it, a junior person, such as myself will be, only looks at the reserve bid lines and picks one and hopefully that’s the one you get. If you don’t get the one you want, what happens then? Do you just get assigned one and if it sucks, it sucks?

As mentioned above, you ‘might’ be able to move some of the reserve days around. It all depends on reserve coverage, etc. i’ve had pretty good luck moving a few reserve days around, to get the days off I need.

You can’t drop reserve days though, it’s still just 12 days off no matter what, and you still need to comply with min rest between reserve blocks, so no more than 6 in a row on short call.

Schedulers won’t do that for you here. Your best bet if you need time off is to contact your BCP. I’ve had some family/health stuff pop up a few times and every time they’ve been very helpful and accommodating. It’s also worth mentioning that a reserve day is only valued at 2.8hrs. Just saying….

You don't just bid one line, you bid as many as you need to cover your seniority in descending order of want. IE, if your seniority number (in base) is #250 then you need to bid at least 250 lines. If you know you are going to be bidding a reserve line then you just need to figure out how far down the reserve list you will be. IE, if you will be the 25th reserve holder for that month then you'll need to bid 25 reserve lines to cover your position. I've never bid reserve for this airline but I'm pretty sure that's how it works. If not someone will be alone to straighten me out.

That is exactly how our seniority based line bidding works. Seniority 1 in base. Bid 1 line. Seniority last. Bid all lines. SEA is the only base of size. All the others are small so sorting through the lines is simple. We are passed the retirement surge here so movement will stabilize and seniority will stabilize. Reserve and OF(Open Flying) pilots are put on a list after line bidding closes. That list is made up of all the junior pilots in their seat in their base, and all the pilots who opted to cherry pick the regular lines and came up short. The second round of line bidding called Open Flying is built out of everything dumped in line bidding. Reserve line bidding occurs at the same time. All seniority based.

Actually, #1 is the second easiest to bid for, as you say only bid one line. But still have to sort through at least a few before he decides.

But the plug doesn't have to bother bidding at all!


Sort of a joke, the plug should bid in case somebody else forgets to, usually a couple three will do that in any given month in a big base.

This is a post of mine from this time last year, so the info may be a little dated... I don't feel like going through and counting new numbers, and I'm not sure how many have retired early. However, I just wanted to show that we are still ramping up retirements through 2029. We certainly haven't had any kind of surge, except perhaps covid early outs. Unfortunately with 3300 pilots on the list, having lets say 47 retire in 2023 is only 1.4% of the seniority list. Growth here is in seat count and EMB-175 aircraft, so keep that in mind when deciding to come here too.

Here is an updated list of our retirements for the next 10 years. This was taken from the Feb 2021 seniority list
2021 - 11
2022 - 38
2023 - 47
2024 - 56
2025 - 79
2026 - 72
2027 - 97
2028 - 79
2029 - 106
2030 - 79
2031 - 91

So a quarter of the list. I think last time I did the math for the other big 3 the next 10 was 45-55% of their lists. Downside is our pilot group is on the younger side. So once this 25-30% retires it’ll be very slow movement. We aren’t gonna grow much if at all. Probably the other direction.

What is the junior base right now? Is Seattle possible as a new hire for someone with a class date in November?

Yes, I believe Seattle is always an option for new hires.

I wouldn't say "always". If they happen to be hiring to fill a bus class, or a mixed class and you don't end up senior enough you may end up in California until the next bid.

How long is taking new hire pilots on average to hold a line at AS in SEA?

Thanks!

Looks like the Junior 737 Lineholder was a January 2018 hire. There are also Open flying lines which are made up of leftover pairings, Most junior pilot awarded an Open flying line was a Feb 2022 hire.

Dec 21 for the junior line holder

Training
 

Anyone recently go through training recently and willing to discuss how it went?

Does Alaska send you material prior to showing up to class?

How many sims do you get?

Any tips to make the process easier?

Out of curiosity, when is your class date?

I dont know if they give you stuff ahead of time, but try to get limitations and memory items from a friend and get those memorized before things get busy.

There's 14 sims, it's overkill

I don't have one, just looking ahead in the future

There is so much time in the footprint, and it’s so well-organized, don’t waste a second studying beforehand.

If you thought it was well organized I'd hate to see where you came from. It was a mess and will be for the next year as airbus guys get cross trained

You talking about the training itself, or the scheduling of said training.

What was not well organized?

I would not worry or suggest trying to study an bunch ahead of time. Just be ready to go all in 100% when you start training, there is plenty of time built in to succeed; and you’ll learn culturally what they want you to learn and the Alaska way of doing things if you will. If you have a decent work ethic while you’re in training you’ll do fine.

We’re both correct! Scheduling of said training is a disaster of epic proportions. Once you get through the gauntlet and into the footprint though, it’s slow but paced with everything you need to know served up on a platter.

Anyone currently in training..

What is the footprint looking like? Last I heard was from someone last April.