PBS VS. Line bidding
02-12-2017 | 08:08 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
This is going to the 11th hour of mediation. Wouldn't expect anything less. (And that mediator would be the head of the arbitration panel.)
Size of the airline doesn't correlate to where we rank pay. Alaska has one of the best balance sheets and highest profit margin in the world among airlines. Your pilots took significant cuts to get Alaska where they are. 5th in pay is a joke. Not happening.
No scope for horizon is not happening. That would be an absolute no vote. And no arbitration panel will agree to that. That idea is not even industry average. This is a new era.
Record profits..Record Contracts.
Size of the airline doesn't correlate to where we rank pay. Alaska has one of the best balance sheets and highest profit margin in the world among airlines. Your pilots took significant cuts to get Alaska where they are. 5th in pay is a joke. Not happening.
No scope for horizon is not happening. That would be an absolute no vote. And no arbitration panel will agree to that. That idea is not even industry average. This is a new era.
Record profits..Record Contracts.
02-12-2017 | 09:00 AM
#62
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,252
Likes: 95
From: DAL 330
PBS vs line bidding.
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
02-12-2017 | 09:24 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: 737 tiller master
PBS vs line bidding.
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
02-12-2017 | 03:52 PM
#64
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,252
Likes: 95
From: DAL 330
02-12-2017 | 08:29 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: 737 tiller master
02-13-2017 | 02:02 AM
#66
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
PBS vs line bidding.
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
Nice to see your honest input with the pros and cons rather than another mindless rant. much appreciated.
02-17-2017 | 08:31 PM
#67
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Eskimo brother from another mother
I had 97h credit last month with 16 days off.
Yes, I know this has much to do with productive flying etc, but that said...
- I'm only about 30% of the way up my list.
- I got EVERY day off I wanted, I got the trips and overnights I wanted and I didn't have to repeatedly dick with my schedule adding, dropping, revising, etc 2, 3, 4 plus times to do it.
- My bid from start to finish took about fifteen, maybe twenty minutes. Wham bam done. No printing out countless sheets. No staying up late. No fuss. Just bid, get, done.
- Again I am *NOT* senior.
Tell me you can do that with line bidding a Alaska and I'm all ears.
Full disclosure: We have a pilot build our lines and he does a damn good job. Alaska NEEDS the same.
~ Stampy
Yes, I know this has much to do with productive flying etc, but that said...
- I'm only about 30% of the way up my list.
- I got EVERY day off I wanted, I got the trips and overnights I wanted and I didn't have to repeatedly dick with my schedule adding, dropping, revising, etc 2, 3, 4 plus times to do it.
- My bid from start to finish took about fifteen, maybe twenty minutes. Wham bam done. No printing out countless sheets. No staying up late. No fuss. Just bid, get, done.
- Again I am *NOT* senior.
Tell me you can do that with line bidding a Alaska and I'm all ears.
Full disclosure: We have a pilot build our lines and he does a damn good job. Alaska NEEDS the same.
~ Stampy
Please stop correlating days off to pbs. I also have had 16-19 days off since I started here. That has to do with math. 70 hr min and productive trips. This all goes away soon and pbs gets exponentially worse with worse trips.
PBS is a concession fellow Vxers. There are several of us pounding on union doors saying how bad we want as is. Please do some research and don't claim the vx pilot group wants pbs. It's misguided.
PBS is a concession fellow Vxers. There are several of us pounding on union doors saying how bad we want as is. Please do some research and don't claim the vx pilot group wants pbs. It's misguided.
Last edited by Foodstamps; 02-17-2017 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Typo
02-17-2017 | 08:39 PM
#68
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Eskimo brother from another mother
Don't make me turn this jet around! Let's focus on the important things. As previously stated it won't matter whether it's hard lines or some fancy new PBS program, if the pairings suck then it won't matter. Pairing construction. Language to help us to that end and a big fat signing bonus with our JCBA. We need to stay united. Cheers!
F1500
F1500
I sure like the simplicity of PBS though. Pop in parameters, it poops out a schedule you can be happy with, every time. Unless you bid like an idiot. (I'm guilty from time to time)
But even bidding like an idiot I still got every single day off I wanted, the overnights I wanted, the credit I wanted etc. User error is just user error. Give it a look.
If any of you Alaska guys wanna see how easy it is to work, I'll be happy to fly up to Seattle next month and show you, but you're buying the beer.
PM me if interested.
Cheers ~ Stampy
02-17-2017 | 08:48 PM
#69
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Eskimo brother from another mother
PBS vs line bidding.
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
PBS is inherently neither good or bad - it is a computer program that turns your PWA into a schedule.
Good PWA = good schedule.
Weak PWA = crappy schedule.
FOr example, PBS does not cause anyone to lose trip touching - that is done via your PWA. PBS can just as easily build you a schedule and then drop your vacation down over your schedule - bingo you retain trips touching.
What PBS does is enable much greater fidelity for both the company and Pilots to fine tune and make adjustments to your schedule. What adjustments are actually made all depends on your PWA and how PBS is implemented.
From a Pilots perspective this enable thousands of additional combinations for your monthly schedule - this is a good thing. It is much easier to fine tune your schedule whether that means individual days off, commutability, pattern bidding etc.
From the companies perspective it enables many additional efficiencies that the company will attempt to secure via the PWA that first incorporates PBS - this is a bad thing for Pilots.
I have been senior and junior with both PBS and LOT and here are some general observations:
Benefits of PBS:
Senior or junior, I have always been able to get a better schedule via PBS.
Many fewer reserve Lines - great for commuters.
Many more combinations of possible lines.
Negatives of PBS:
Much less open time available.
Fewer Pilots required.
Fewer Pilots required is perhaps the biggest drawback, but as I already pointed out that is partially PWA related and partly attributable to PBS.
If you are hiring this drawback may not even be noticeable. At DAL we switched to PBS in the middle of the "lost decade" and the switch was painful. I for one am now very happy with PBS and would not want to switch back.
One of my favorite things to do via PBS is to easily get two weeks off in a row at the end of a month - even while junior. Unless there is a holiday, it is pretty easy to bid the last week of a month off and the first week of the next month off - thus building two week "vacations" into your schedule.
Scoop
I have faith in our negotiators, they are smarter than anyone in this room and will do a great job. My union speaks for me. Enough with the name calling and animosity in here, we are on the same team and we are professionals. High time we all start acting like it and GET PAID accordingly. We are in this together, regardless of who signs our paychecks today, or tomorrow.
~ Stampy
02-20-2017 | 10:40 AM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Stampy,
You no longer work for a company that values your time, commitment or engagement. You are viewed as a line item expense.....to be marginalized. You will come to work on day 1 at 5am and be released at 2355 on day 4. You will be paid the average of 5 hrs per day no matter how much you actually work in a day. Your lines will be built to have you at work 15 to 17 days per month and you will be paid 75 to 85 hrs for that.
You no longer work for a company that values your time, commitment or engagement. You are viewed as a line item expense.....to be marginalized. You will come to work on day 1 at 5am and be released at 2355 on day 4. You will be paid the average of 5 hrs per day no matter how much you actually work in a day. Your lines will be built to have you at work 15 to 17 days per month and you will be paid 75 to 85 hrs for that.
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