Spirit And management working cohesively
08-28-2020, 06:06 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: A320
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Instead of chest thumping and Rah-Rah-Rah-ing elected and unelected union officials, maybe pilots should be asking the union serious questions about what they are doing to mitigate furloughs and help improve the solvency of the company, as every other airline has done. The Union offered an extension of the ETO program. The Company said that's not adequate and made a counter proposal that the union found unacceptable. The Union refused to engage any further. That's not how negotiations work. You start far apart and find common ground somewhere in the middle. You don't take your ball and go home.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
08-28-2020, 06:19 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: pilot
Posts: 584
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Instead of chest thumping and Rah-Rah-Rah-ing elected and unelected union officials, maybe pilots should be asking the union serious questions about what they are doing to mitigate furloughs and help improve the solvency of the company, as every other airline has done. The Union offered an extension of the ETO program. The Company said that's not adequate and made a counter proposal that the union found unacceptable. The Union refused to engage any further. That's not how negotiations work. You start far apart and find common ground somewhere in the middle. You don't take your ball and go home.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
08-28-2020, 06:38 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 669
Originally Posted by Beretta01
You don’t need to tell us your name/seniority number, but just to prove to us that you’re not management: what are the conditions that the pack fault light will come on and what page of our FCOM is that found in? We’ll all be waiting for your response.
FAULT lt: Comes amber and a caution appears on the ECAM if the pack flow control valve position disagrees with the selected position…
Good enough? Not that I have to prove anything to you. You could say I'm a "long time listener, first time caller". I'm one of the 600 or so members who's never posted on your facebook page, I just sit back and watch the circus as the same 100 or so posters beat each other up or get shamed into submission every day.
This kind of immature games are exactly what I'm talking about. From an elected steward none the less. You do realize management has access to the manuals because they are the ones who write them… right?
Quit having wee-wee measuring contests on the internet and get back to work for this pilot group.
Signed a member of the silent majority.
08-28-2020, 06:40 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,941
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Instead of chest thumping and Rah-Rah-Rah-ing elected and unelected union officials, maybe pilots should be asking the union serious questions about what they are doing to mitigate furloughs and help improve the solvency of the company, as every other airline has done. The Union offered an extension of the ETO program. The Company said that's not adequate and made a counter proposal that the union found unacceptable. The Union refused to engage any further. That's not how negotiations work. You start far apart and find common ground somewhere in the middle. You don't take your ball and go home.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
08-28-2020, 06:52 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: A-320
Posts: 680
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Instead of chest thumping and Rah-Rah-Rah-ing elected and unelected union officials, maybe pilots should be asking the union serious questions about what they are doing to mitigate furloughs and help improve the solvency of the company, as every other airline has done. The Union offered an extension of the ETO program. The Company said that's not adequate and made a counter proposal that the union found unacceptable. The Union refused to engage any further. That's not how negotiations work. You start far apart and find common ground somewhere in the middle. You don't take your ball and go home.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash.
08-28-2020, 08:09 AM
#66
Kabuki Kool
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: fu3king.airline@Furlough. DNA
Posts: 447
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Instead of chest thumping and Rah-Rah-Rah-ing elected and unelected union officials, maybe pilots should be asking the union serious questions about what they are doing to mitigate furloughs and help improve the solvency of the company, as every other airline has done. The Union offered an extension of the ETO program. The Company said that's not adequate and made a counter proposal that the union found unacceptable. The Union refused to engage any further. That's not how negotiations work. You start far apart and find common ground somewhere in the middle. You don't take your ball and go home.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
08-28-2020, 10:07 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 669
Originally Posted by KC135
There is so much misinformation here, please learn how to read a balance sheet and statement of cash flows. Cash + Short Term investments at the end of 2019 = 457 million. Now at the end of Q2 = 663 million which is the opposite of hemorrhaging cash. The balance sheet has improved with no additional debt or equity. Try tuning into an earnings call.
It's actually very simple. Airlines don't stay in business very long flying flights that are half full or less, with passengers who paid 50% or less of the ticket price they paid last year. We began the summer losing $2 million per day. We are now down to losing about $900,000 per day. That's pretty impressive, but it's still almost a million dollars a day loss. Divide that out by the amount of actual cash we have, and that's how many days we have to stay in business. Hope the pandemic is over by then, and not only do people feel safe to travel, but can afford to travel after they too have lost their jobs and/or retirement. Keep thumping your chest though. I'm sure that will help.
08-28-2020, 11:20 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 650
Originally Posted by KC135
There is so much misinformation here, please learn how to read a balance sheet and statement of cash flows. Cash + Short Term investments at the end of 2019 = 457 million. Now at the end of Q2 = 663 million which is the opposite of hemorrhaging cash. The balance sheet has improved with no additional debt or equity. Try tuning into an earnings call.
The increase to cash was to compensate for the cash burn. End of 2019 the company didn't need to horde cash because it had positive cash flow with approx 4-6m a day in revenue from bookings. Once the revenue started dropping to rock bottom and the cash flow disappeared, then the company stock piled cash to weather the storm and try to come out on the other side.
I'm not trying to call you out or be a pest, but you can't actually believe that because management horded a bunch of cash when the pandemic started, that they are now lying to us about us hemorrhaging cash?
08-28-2020, 11:48 AM
#69
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Instead of chest thumping and Rah-Rah-Rah-ing elected and unelected union officials, maybe pilots should be asking the union serious questions about what they are doing to mitigate furloughs and help improve the solvency of the company, as every other airline has done. The Union offered an extension of the ETO program. The Company said that's not adequate and made a counter proposal that the union found unacceptable. The Union refused to engage any further. That's not how negotiations work. You start far apart and find common ground somewhere in the middle.
We've already given the company concessions (for years in the form of our contract). We are the lowest paid Airbus pilots in the country. Our contract is already below the concessions given recently by many of our peers in the industry.
Throwing out outrageous proposals and then expecting to meet in the middle is not how negotiations work. All or nothing is counterproductive. Negotiating with low level admins that can't approve the final plan also impedes the process.
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash.
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines?
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set.
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
I hope that we can find mutual ground. I hope that we can continue to grow this airline so that both the share holders and employees will be financially rewarded. Until they start treating all of us like team members and holding us to a different standard than themselves, it's just hope (bad plan or not).
08-28-2020, 12:16 PM
#70
Kabuki Kool
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: fu3king.airline@Furlough. DNA
Posts: 447
Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
Instead of chest thumping and Rah-Rah-Rah-ing elected and unelected union officials, maybe pilots should be asking the union serious questions about what they are doing to mitigate furloughs and help improve the solvency of the company, as every other airline has done. The Union offered an extension of the ETO program. The Company said that's not adequate and made a counter proposal that the union found unacceptable. The Union refused to engage any further. That's not how negotiations work. You start far apart and find common ground somewhere in the middle. You don't take your ball and go home.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
This pandemic is not a conspiracy. This isn't MG just trying to get what he can. Every airline in the world is facing this issue, and most are making much bigger advances in their mitigation plan than we have been. Sure we are better off financially than some airlines, because we started off in a better position, but we are still hemorrhaging cash. Passenger bookings are still far below 50% of what they were at this time last year, as seen in the great weekly reports one of our own pilots generates. That means we will need 50% less people and infrastructure going forward to survive. We can't expect to continue business as usual and stay solvent. This isn't a charity. You all want to pound your chests and shout "max pay to the last day"? What happens when that last day comes and the music stops? I don't see much more cheering when there's no chairs left because 10,000 pilots already hit the street. This isn't a game. Ever heard of Eastern Airlines? Maybe you're too senior to care right now, because you're secure in your seat and base and cuts won't affect you. That's a pretty selfish position, yet you thump your chest and cry about supporting a union? If you're in that camp, you don't know what trade unionism means so stop cheering. If the company closes the doors, a lot of senior pilots will be forced into early retirement here, long before they are financially prepared. I assure you, MG will be fine either way. He recovered from VJ, he will recover from this. The asset sales alone will almost make him even if we close the doors. He will still be a multi millionaire and have a nice retirement.
It's unfortunate that we are laying 100-275 pilots off. I don't think there's anything the union can do to stop that now, but just throwing them away and telling them to take one for the team also sucks. There will be more layoffs beyond the 275 if something doesn't change. The company originally told the union to expect 400-500 furloughs, lest you forget. Hoping for a vaccine and a return to travel? Hope is not a strategy. The company hasn't even asked for concessions on pay rates and benefits, they are just trying to find out of the box ways to mitigate overstaffing and get through this together. They even offered to sunset any agreements before the contract becomes amenable so that bad precedent isn't set. They are trying to work with us. It would be nice if the union would do their job and get back to the negotiations table, instead of throwing tantrums like a spoiled child, and whining that publicly posted messages were viewed by management. I believe that the hatred and animus the union leaders have for the company is impeding progress. Maybe they are burned out from the fight. The future of the company and a lot of people's livelihoods are at stake, and it's too late for amateur hour. Stop with the nonsense and do your jobs. Get back to the table and bring us something to vote on.
