Questions for line pilots
07-03-2021, 02:56 PM
#3
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by tom11011
Just post it here ?
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
What is the status of the contract negotiations? I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
How accurate do you find your pay each month? Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
07-03-2021, 03:11 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,182
Originally Posted by morerudder69
It was kind of going to be long winded but since I didn't get any bites I guess I'll post it here.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
What is the status of the contract negotiations? I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
How accurate do you find your pay each month? Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
What is the status of the contract negotiations? I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
How accurate do you find your pay each month? Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
Commuting, probably not many. I had my own apartment in base and car, and went home to visit friends and family 1-2 times a month (sometimes more) when the schedule allowed. Here lies the problem.
Depending on where you want to be based and live, may take a loooooong ass time. You want BLI? It could be 1-2 years honestly. Sounds like FL bases are stacked deep with a waiting list. So as a new hire your going to get what you get and it could take quite awhile until you get based “at home”. Then, as others have said, if your Junior in a “seasonal” base you could find yourself involuntarily TDY out 2-3 months of the year. Now your somewhere else and trying to get back to your base/home with 1-2 off at a time.
Swap/Drop is probably very base specific. I was in 2 very large bases. SFB and LAS. It wasn’t anything to be blown away by, but some
months you could adjust your schedule to be somewhat more tolerable.
Contract? Sounds like the first one only happened because Airbus forced MGs hand and said it needed to be done in order to buy/acquire the dozen or so Sharklet CEO 320s. I would not be expect a contract to be agreed/ratified for a long long looooong time unless market forces dictate otherwise.
I left after 2.5 years. My newhire class has 4
left out of 10. The bottom 250-300 was a revolving door. These things aren’t by accident. They tell a story if your inclined enough to read it.
For some this is the best job ever. For some it’s not. I live in a city that is Allegiant’s newest base that just opened. I still would have left even if I were based there (it had been a base) as a newhire. YMMV.
07-03-2021, 04:10 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,940
Originally Posted by morerudder69
It was kind of going to be long winded but since I didn't get any bites I guess I'll post it here.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
What is the status of the contract negotiations? I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
How accurate do you find your pay each month? Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
What is the status of the contract negotiations? I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
How accurate do you find your pay each month? Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
I think it is safe to say those who are very senior (senior captain or senior fo) are living a dream and have very little interaction with management ever. You just show up when you are supposed to fly a round trip and go home. In some ways each base is its own mini airline. Personally, I am undecided on whether to accept an upgrade ever because of my current lifestyle as a senior fo, I know what I would be in for and there in lies the other side of the coin.
Negotiations are just starting. I think we are in for a long battle however market forces could dictate otherwise. Originally I was convinced we were signing a 5 year agreement with another 5 years negotiation after expiration. Rumor has it that they would be happy to offer a big raise and leave all other work rules the same but I don’t think the union would ever allow something like that to come before the pilots and rightly so. A lot needs fixing.
Our private forum is littered with pay complaints, many requiring union involvement and grievances / arbitration. Herein lies what many feel is the hostility, violations of the contract for items that seem crystal clear and not open to interpretation. They go to arbitration and the company loses a shocking amount of the time. This is what is so upsetting to me personally that they generally seem hostile sometimes for no reason. It’s as if they are saying "we know we agreed to this but we are not going to do it".
Dropping trips is easy enough to do, but I’m in a bigger base. If you are in a small base with only 10 fo’s it might be harder as only 1/3 will ever be off at a time. You can drop two ways, either the company is advertising a trip drop that you can pick up -or- you can put your trip on the trip trade board and someone could pick it up.
Last edited by tom11011; 07-03-2021 at 04:23 PM.
07-03-2021, 04:38 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Posts: 549
Originally Posted by CAirBear
LOL! Take the hostility at your regional times x10. It’s beyond pathetic. Anyone on here claiming different is either experiencing Stockholm syndrome or #1-2 in base and could care less. Until MG Fs off this place will never be an airline I can recommend to anyone and I have had local friends ask me . With the right management group it could be terrific, but sadly it isn’t at the moment.
Commuting, probably not many. I had my own apartment in base and car, and went home to visit friends and family 1-2 times a month (sometimes more) when the schedule allowed. Here lies the problem.
Depending on where you want to be based and live, may take a loooooong ass time. You want BLI? It could be 1-2 years honestly. Sounds like FL bases are stacked deep with a waiting list. So as a new hire your going to get what you get and it could take quite awhile until you get based “at home”. Then, as others have said, if your Junior in a “seasonal” base you could find yourself involuntarily TDY out 2-3 months of the year. Now your somewhere else and trying to get back to your base/home with 1-2 off at a time.
Swap/Drop is probably very base specific. I was in 2 very large bases. SFB and LAS. It wasn’t anything to be blown away by, but some
months you could adjust your schedule to be somewhat more tolerable.
Contract? Sounds like the first one only happened because Airbus forced MGs hand and said it needed to be done in order to buy/acquire the dozen or so Sharklet CEO 320s. I would not be expect a contract to be agreed/ratified for a long long looooong time unless market forces dictate otherwise.
I left after 2.5 years. My newhire class has 4
left out of 10. The bottom 250-300 was a revolving door. These things aren’t by accident. They tell a story if your inclined enough to read it.
For some this is the best job ever. For some it’s not. I live in a city that is Allegiant’s newest base that just opened. I still would have left even if I were based there (it had been a base) as a newhire. YMMV.
Commuting, probably not many. I had my own apartment in base and car, and went home to visit friends and family 1-2 times a month (sometimes more) when the schedule allowed. Here lies the problem.
Depending on where you want to be based and live, may take a loooooong ass time. You want BLI? It could be 1-2 years honestly. Sounds like FL bases are stacked deep with a waiting list. So as a new hire your going to get what you get and it could take quite awhile until you get based “at home”. Then, as others have said, if your Junior in a “seasonal” base you could find yourself involuntarily TDY out 2-3 months of the year. Now your somewhere else and trying to get back to your base/home with 1-2 off at a time.
Swap/Drop is probably very base specific. I was in 2 very large bases. SFB and LAS. It wasn’t anything to be blown away by, but some
months you could adjust your schedule to be somewhat more tolerable.
Contract? Sounds like the first one only happened because Airbus forced MGs hand and said it needed to be done in order to buy/acquire the dozen or so Sharklet CEO 320s. I would not be expect a contract to be agreed/ratified for a long long looooong time unless market forces dictate otherwise.
I left after 2.5 years. My newhire class has 4
left out of 10. The bottom 250-300 was a revolving door. These things aren’t by accident. They tell a story if your inclined enough to read it.
For some this is the best job ever. For some it’s not. I live in a city that is Allegiant’s newest base that just opened. I still would have left even if I were based there (it had been a base) as a newhire. YMMV.
Come on dude, you haven't worked at G4 for a few years and you're the first to respond on the post?
It must be hard to know you'd have 17 days off this month as a captain at home in DSM. Easy two leg day, no deadheading, no holiday inn airport shuttle, $20k a month. Glad you love FO life at spirit, but nobody cares.
07-03-2021, 06:03 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,182
Originally Posted by 9easy
Come on dude, you haven't worked at G4 for a few years and you're the first to respond on the post?
It must be hard to know you'd have 17 days off this month as a captain at home in DSM. Easy two leg day, no deadheading, no holiday inn airport shuttle, $20k a month. Glad you love FO life at spirit, but nobody cares.
It must be hard to know you'd have 17 days off this month as a captain at home in DSM. Easy two leg day, no deadheading, no holiday inn airport shuttle, $20k a month. Glad you love FO life at spirit, but nobody cares.
Holiday Inn? 😂 Ooooooookie dokie.
P.S - My complaints aren’t without merit. That’s the funny thing here. No one addresses or acknowledges it.
You are treated like trash by management, For the most part schedules (unless 1-2 in base) are pretty awful - HDMW anyone? Every single word of the contract is ignored. I’m really not making any of this up 🤷🏻♂️
Like I said, everyone has to find their thing. Allegiant wasn’t for me (hometown base or not). For some it’s great. For the sake of everyone I home MG retires and some competent folks who actually respect their workforce takes charge.
07-03-2021, 07:34 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by morerudder69
It was kind of going to be long winded but since I didn't get any bites I guess I'll post it here.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
What is the status of the contract negotiations? I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
How accurate do you find your pay each month? Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
What is the status of the contract negotiations? I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
How accurate do you find your pay each month? Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
07-04-2021, 06:03 AM
#9
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,853
Originally Posted by morerudder69
It was kind of going to be long winded but since I didn't get any bites I guess I'll post it here.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
Whether it's better or worse is subjective, and depends where you're at. My personal take is that this place is a clone of Mesa from the 90s/early 2000s with bigger jets and more money.
What is the status of the contract negotiations?
I don't know. The union boss has been very clear that he won't be providing detailed updates. All we get is vague comments. There's no transparency there.
I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
No
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
It appears some pilots somewhere get jr man/extension every day. Reserves also get their days off rolled constantly. Fun fact: a 20 year old ramp worker who doesn't even work for this company can come on the plane and tell you you're working tomorrow, and it sticks.
How accurate do you find your pay each month?
It's so bad that most of us order a copy of our pay sheet delivered every day. I find errors several times a month. when you do, you have to go through 3 layers of login to file a report. This report sits in someone's inbox for several days, then you either get a response that you were paid correctly, (typical), or that they corrected the error (rare). It usually requires a grievance to get fixed in a year or two. It really seems like the company screws us on pay as a cost savings measure, hoping we won't catch it or won't bother to fight it.
Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Yes
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
I "know a guy" who hustles like no other, flying out of SFB to pick up trips all over the country, and he told me he came in just under $300K last year. It's pretty rare. Most pilots here punch the clock: fly their minimum and go home. Some months they force us above 90 hours, some months they keep everyone at guarantee. It also varies by base. This is a seasonal airline. One thing to remember is we have very little "soft time". Our majority owner (MG) can't stand low productivity. Unless you have vacation or some other credit (rare), a 95 hour line means you actually flew 95 hours. Not a lot of airlines can say that. The up side is that since we are all day trips, the trips are very productive. If you're senior in your seat, you can easily hold trips of 6-8 hours a day in most bases. That comes to at least 15 days off a month for that 95 hours. If you fly lower than that, you could only work 10 days a month. A lot of our pilots have a side hustle because of all the time off you can get here. The down side is that doesn't apply to junior people. Min days off on reserve is 11, and can be lowered to 10, 3 months of the year. Reserves always get min days off, just because they can. If you upgrade, plan on a minimum 5 years on reserve, 10+ in a large base. Have I mentioned there's basically no work rules on reserve? They will work you until you're dead.
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
Nothing is published, it's anyone's guess. Maybe 10-20%? Some people make it work, especially the former VBD group who won't give it up.
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
The company very seldomly offers trip drops. They intentionally short staff the airline (remember the productivity thing?). You can post trips and hope someone picks it up. We have underground whats app trip swapping networks that are base specific too. If you really need a day off, plan on calling in sick. Also plan on getting a free trip to Vegas to do a carpet dance with the chief pilot if you bang out sick too often. Union approved, of course.
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
Nothing is published, so it's anyone's guess. I'd guess A LOT less than 60. Maybe an average of 50? We have very, very, very few retirements over the next 10 years. Let's just say 5 a year or less.
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
Every forums has people saying how hostile management is and how much they hate the pilots, how true is that even at Allegiant? At my regional, our management seems to be as hostile as you can possibly get so I can't imagine it being worse here.
Whether it's better or worse is subjective, and depends where you're at. My personal take is that this place is a clone of Mesa from the 90s/early 2000s with bigger jets and more money.
What is the status of the contract negotiations?
I don't know. The union boss has been very clear that he won't be providing detailed updates. All we get is vague comments. There's no transparency there.
I see the current one is expiring/is expired. Is there any real information on a timeline of the new one or what will be included or asked for?
No
How often are pilots receiving junior man's/extensions?
It appears some pilots somewhere get jr man/extension every day. Reserves also get their days off rolled constantly. Fun fact: a 20 year old ramp worker who doesn't even work for this company can come on the plane and tell you you're working tomorrow, and it sticks.
How accurate do you find your pay each month?
It's so bad that most of us order a copy of our pay sheet delivered every day. I find errors several times a month. when you do, you have to go through 3 layers of login to file a report. This report sits in someone's inbox for several days, then you either get a response that you were paid correctly, (typical), or that they corrected the error (rare). It usually requires a grievance to get fixed in a year or two. It really seems like the company screws us on pay as a cost savings measure, hoping we won't catch it or won't bother to fight it.
Do you find yourself having to grievance pay issues often?
Yes
Every forum someone "knows a guy" who is making 300-400k or a lot more than they should be. What's the honest average of what pilots are crediting per month as a normal line holder with how many days off? How many days off would you be at to credit around 100 hours per month?
I "know a guy" who hustles like no other, flying out of SFB to pick up trips all over the country, and he told me he came in just under $300K last year. It's pretty rare. Most pilots here punch the clock: fly their minimum and go home. Some months they force us above 90 hours, some months they keep everyone at guarantee. It also varies by base. This is a seasonal airline. One thing to remember is we have very little "soft time". Our majority owner (MG) can't stand low productivity. Unless you have vacation or some other credit (rare), a 95 hour line means you actually flew 95 hours. Not a lot of airlines can say that. The up side is that since we are all day trips, the trips are very productive. If you're senior in your seat, you can easily hold trips of 6-8 hours a day in most bases. That comes to at least 15 days off a month for that 95 hours. If you fly lower than that, you could only work 10 days a month. A lot of our pilots have a side hustle because of all the time off you can get here. The down side is that doesn't apply to junior people. Min days off on reserve is 11, and can be lowered to 10, 3 months of the year. Reserves always get min days off, just because they can. If you upgrade, plan on a minimum 5 years on reserve, 10+ in a large base. Have I mentioned there's basically no work rules on reserve? They will work you until you're dead.
What percentage of pilots here actually commute?
Nothing is published, it's anyone's guess. Maybe 10-20%? Some people make it work, especially the former VBD group who won't give it up.
How easily are you able to swap/drop trips?
The company very seldomly offers trip drops. They intentionally short staff the airline (remember the productivity thing?). You can post trips and hope someone picks it up. We have underground whats app trip swapping networks that are base specific too. If you really need a day off, plan on calling in sick. Also plan on getting a free trip to Vegas to do a carpet dance with the chief pilot if you bang out sick too often. Union approved, of course.
What's the average age of the FO/CA/FAs?
Nothing is published, so it's anyone's guess. I'd guess A LOT less than 60. Maybe an average of 50? We have very, very, very few retirements over the next 10 years. Let's just say 5 a year or less.
I know a lot of this is base and season variable, but I'm just looking for general averages or what most people have experienced so far.
1. Don't buy the BS about sleeping in your own bed every night, unless you don't care where that bed is located.
2. Don't buy the BS that you'll get whatever base you want in less than a year.
3. Don't buy the BS that you'll be flying 90 hour lines with 10 days off in less than 5 years as an FO/15 years as a CA.
4. Don't buy the BS that you will get to Florida.
5. Don't buy the BS that we have a great training department. We do not. You will need to put in overtime to pass. Last week, half the type rides got pinked.
6. Don't come here thinking you'll get the AB type and leave. You may find yourself bypassed while legacy airlines hire regional guys.
7. You will upgrade in a base we haven't opened yet if you stay. Someplace like Flint or Rockford or Belleville, IL.
07-04-2021, 06:38 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
The forums have a search feature! If you come here, know what you're getting into. Recruiters are selling hard.
1. Don't buy the BS about sleeping in your own bed every night, unless you don't care where that bed is located.
2. Don't buy the BS that you'll get whatever base you want in less than a year.
3. Don't buy the BS that you'll be flying 90 hour lines with 10 days off in less than 5 years as an FO/15 years as a CA.
4. Don't buy the BS that you will get to Florida.
5. Don't buy the BS that we have a great training department. We do not. You will need to put in overtime to pass. Last week, half the type rides got pinked.
6. Don't come here thinking you'll get the AB type and leave. You may find yourself bypassed while legacy airlines hire regional guys.
7. You will upgrade in a base we haven't opened yet if you stay. Someplace like Flint or Rockford or Belleville, IL.
1. Don't buy the BS about sleeping in your own bed every night, unless you don't care where that bed is located.
2. Don't buy the BS that you'll get whatever base you want in less than a year.
3. Don't buy the BS that you'll be flying 90 hour lines with 10 days off in less than 5 years as an FO/15 years as a CA.
4. Don't buy the BS that you will get to Florida.
5. Don't buy the BS that we have a great training department. We do not. You will need to put in overtime to pass. Last week, half the type rides got pinked.
6. Don't come here thinking you'll get the AB type and leave. You may find yourself bypassed while legacy airlines hire regional guys.
7. You will upgrade in a base we haven't opened yet if you stay. Someplace like Flint or Rockford or Belleville, IL.
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