The reason UA can get a AIP so fast is because they have a century worth of great contract language that holds both sides accountable. Unfortunately our current contract language looks like it was written by a bad paralegal. People say the company doesn't follow the contract, but the fact often lies in between - the current contract is written so poorly that there is room for interpretation on both sides. Add to that, horrible note keeping by the last negotiations team, and when there is ambiguity we all know the arbitrator tends to rule on the side of the company. This new contract doesn't need to be 500 pages like DL/UA, but it needs clear and concise language, with examples, negotiation notes, and a faster way to execute disagreements in the future. It's not really shooting for the moon, this is little league regional stuff that any ALPA airline would do.

No way. Its a hard No from me on a quick pay deal.

Look, the reason we keep loosing arbitrations is the turd of a contract a bunch of sell-outs voted for last time. Those guys need to keep quiet or find another industry.

We will not be part of the crap that has plagued this pilot group for the past 6 years. It is time to bring G4 to the same level as the other players with these aircraft. Anything less is a total disgrace to the industry. 90% or better of those who I speak to agree. no contract unless its the right contract. Let the company shrink if they want to play games with their share price. If G4 cant match the true competitors (Jet Blue, Southwest etc, not Alevo, Breeze and Suncountry) then it needs to go away, become a distant memory.

Agreed. It’s funny that guys are screaming that payrates are hard numbers and can’t be argued. Agreed, but the multiplier is in the language. You may be happy making $600/hr, but thought you were going to make 89 hours and they “don’t see it that way” because an ADD day has no value, but it does when you pick stuff up. Or whatever other interpretations they want to make. You just lost 19 hours at $600. I don’t get why guys don’t understand this. Must be a few years from retirement.

Shrinking this airline is not necessarily a bad thing. Shrinking G4 out of existence isn’t something to be afraid of either.

The obtuse lunch box bunch. Sitting pretty, seat and base. ADD days Whaaaaa?

This! I don't even know why others are debating this topic, it's not up for debate and there is no need to resurvey since it wasn't even close to 50%. I've recently flown with some that want the money now and I completely understand their point from a financial perspective. While I agree with them that we will never make that money up, the long term success of the company is more important by having a complete TA so the pilot list can actually grow and retain. I see some post talking about voting on a pay rate only contract. I'm not sure how it's possible for everyone not to understand that the current exco will not sell you out and send a mostly rate only increase contract out to vote.

310sky your optimism is adorable but you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I just hope you aren't making any career decisions based on your misinterpretation of the exco's recent update which had no such quick timeline as you're assuming. Today's UAL new hires will be making 400k in the left seat before we have a new TA. If anyone thinks we will be the first airline of this millennium to reach a TA before the 2 year mark and not go to mediation with our current management then you honestly need to check yourself into the HIMS program and get back to reality.

Yeah. We’ll vote in a new contract by XMas because the hourly rate will attract enough buyers. This is allegiant not Delta. Not United. Not American.

ADD days are another arbitration that was supposed to be an easy for the win but…rumor is that union doesn’t even want to arbitrate it anymore because they think we will lose based on the RAP arbitration.

Instead of relying on some interpretation to get paid more soft time, just pay me more. Again that cannot be ignored. All the crap we have been losing is the soft time that that old regime tried to negotiate into the contract but didn’t do a good enough job apparently. The soft time can be left to interpretation like ADD days, RAPs, SAP going abg, removal pay for vfns, pay per flight segment instead of per trip pairing, all of these are soft time arbitrations that we have lost or will prolly lose.

I’m all for getting a better contract with soft time, legacy language, etc. I just have no faith that management will honor it (anybody really think crew services gonna change anything?). I also have little faith the union will be able to enforce the contract through arbitration. At best, arbitration is a coin toss - lately it has been much worse. Its just my opinion, but I think anybody that’s been here for sometime knows that what I’m saying rings true.

Just ask yourself: do you really think that just because we rewrite the contract that foster and scheduling will stop telling us to fly now, grieve later??? Y’all are too cute… maybe I’ll sell you some swampland for $600m.

Again, the reason we loose the arbitrations is because of the turd contract we have. No to pay rises without improved work rules with the contract having the teeth to back it up. Things may be rosy at your seniority, but for 50% of this pilot group qol and work rules suck balls. The senior guys at this firm have a lot more to loose than the junior guys. I'm not packing up and leaving, giving up my little seniority just start over again, so those senior guys can maintain their status quo cushy lifestyle.

Full Fair Contract, or Bust!

There are many needed QOL improvements that need to happen that don’t require the Magna Carta & aren’t open to interpretation.

Schedules can’t be built with single days off
Ground deadhead only LL, period
RAP’s can’t be moved unless forced by legality
Vacation pay trips missed & you can slide 3 days
Min days off increased
Min pay 5 hours
Red eyes one leg go to hotel
etc…..
I’m sure you all can think of dozens more.