Airline Pilot Central Forums - Contract negotiations

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Quote:

Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3444525)

Or i'm not a worshipper of the union or the company - just a pilot who'd like to have the option of picking up and making some extra $$$. i'm nowhere near senior enough to get VFNs so being able to pick up OT at a premium would have been nice. same with making some extra on the premium pay.

but go ahead keyboard ninja and label me management because i don't only drink the kool-aid.

have you spoken to anyone at the union about negotiations and if we are close to a deal? try it, really grill them on it and they'll tell you that we are no where close to a contract. the union is intentionally dragging their feet on putting out their compensation proposals to wait and see what United's is. why does that matter, because it shows that if you have a brain you'd realize that we are a long way from a contract and a raise. given we are years away, i'd like the opportunity to make some extra cash.

You’re right in that the Union has its many many faults. That being said, if this was accepted it would had been a giant slap in the face to the jr side of the pilot group.

As a junior guy you do not have nearly the opportunity to make money on days off for many reasons. If you are on reserve you have 10 days off in July. Most sequences starting in the AM and ending in the PM. Good luck getting 30hrs of rest to pick anything up on a day off.
If you are a jr line holder you work 18-20 days primarily on the high fly days (in which all the open time lies) with Tuesdays off and no OT to be had. I don’t even want to begin to guess how you would be paid as a composite guy with ADD days… So yes this scheme greatly favors those who are able to pick up days when the company needs them. Aka guys with weekends off and 16 plus days off. While the rest of the pilot group is flying inefficient trips with their days off being on days when there is very very little OT.

Not accepting this offer galvanizes our pilot group rather than further divide the already large schism between jr and sr

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3444551)

You don’t believe it will be more than 9 months???

if it’s more then 9 we will all be looking for work and M will be mourning the loss of most of his fortune after he files for BK

Quote:

Originally Posted by 310skying (Post 3444593)

if it’s more then 9 we will all be looking for work and M will be mourning the loss of most of his fortune after he files for BK

If you believe that….lot’s of opportunities out there millions more $ over a career & real domiciles that won’t close on a whim….and “home every night” can be reality once you find your niche if that’s the hill you’re willing to die on…

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvPilot (Post 3444586)

Not accepting this offer galvanizes our pilot group rather than further divide the already large schism between jr and sr

Couldn’t have been worded any better. I 100% agree with you. I guarantee make less than everyone, or equal at best. Commute, renting in two places, going to the mid-con bases and being flexible for the company’s needs. I’m very grateful to be here… but, I’m glad the union didn’t sign this. I could *maybe* have benefitted from this in the short term, but no one would have gained anything from it at the end of the day.

5% to 10% of the seniority list and management would have been the beneficiaries. No deal..

How about proper staffing levels including reserve coverage so one can actually drop a day if needed. Handing out 3x pay won’t add flexibility nor will it improve our schedules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3444459)

looks like what TT sent out was mostly true: 3x for some OT and 2x in premium pay (JA pay and OT on vacation is crumbs at best)...

I know AR and exco have their reasons for this, but it is rough when somebody who doesn't fly but takes a line anyway and has only seen pay raises during the pandemic tell me that i am not allowed to make double and triple. when there are no concessions being asked for (which from what i've seen on fb there weren't), then let the pilot group decide whether they want to make some extra $$$ during the worst inflation in 40 years.

Or... make sure a new contract and pay raise is around the corner. don't tell me that i can't make extra money now AND that i will have to wait 3-4 more years for a raise.

and all you AR worshippers, don't tell me that this will motivate the company to get a deal done sooner. we are no where close to a new contract. the union has not put forth one economic proposal (and don't plan to until the United numbers are made public). we are years away from a contract so please let me make some extra money in the meantime to take the sting away.

No way man. When you're in negotiations you don't help the company out. This would have been a band aid to get them through the summer then they would go right back to non-negotiations. Taking this deal would have drug the contract out even further. This was meant to exploit pilot greed particularly among the senior. Slow clap for AR to say no. Someone has to tamp down greed and think about the group as a whole. No Waivers No Favors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailendcharlie (Post 3444464)

Years away from a contract anyway ‘cause MG isn’t gonna pony up for the rates or the work rules without going all the way down the road to self-help. Agreeing to this proposal conditions the company to think throwing money at us without fixing all the underlying issues will get them through peak months & they can relax a little…..and next they offer to bump 1st pay & of course if the union took the bait for more senior pilots how can they deny helping poor new hires…..the timeline for that T/A just moved even farther out….

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreshWater (Post 3444612)

5% to 10% of the seniority list and management would have been the beneficiaries. No deal..

Exactly. EXCO did the right thing and Tracy's pi$$ed off email is the proof. They aren't doing this because they want to help us, they're going it because they are screwed due to their own mismanagement and this is their only way out of the summer meltdown. We've got them by the balls. Now it's time to twist until they cry uncle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captnate702 (Post 3444525)

This is why we can't have nice things. The "each man for himself" mentality is stronger here than any place I've worked.

AR 100% did the right thing turning this down. And after watching his latest video, anyone who thinks a contract is coming soon needs to have themselves properly evaluated. This is going to mediation, and then it will drag on from there. If you’re not interested in staying for the long haul that this will take, I’d suggest getting out as quickly as you can and get started rebuilding seniority elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SladeTin (Post 3444835)

^this. The whole business model here was built around low cost labor. They’re going to grasp for straws as long as they can to hold on to that. Why anyone would come here or stay here with no seniority is beyond me.