is this for a JCBA?

there is no chance in h*ll we are getting those rates before this deal closes. Sorry SY folks but I’m skeptical management will offer anything more than what you’re current rates are…

we have zero leverage. IBT has royally screwed us for years. I think most G4 pilots will look back on this merger as a gift to us because it will finally end the teamsters reign over us.

 

The proposed rates seem to be from a contract comparison pdf. I don't have a date so idk when it's from. As far as the screenshot of the SY rates, those are the current correct rates.

 

One leverage of a joint contract is the company does not get the efficiencies and savings of a joint company tell its all together. The longer they 2 are left apart the more and more it cost and less savings they will see. So to an extend the merger puts some time constant on the company. That that it will make us a windfall but in 3 years there will be multi new contracts done at the other carries again.

 

This was a company proposal at G4. Maybe not the one the mailed to our wives, but it’s a bit old I think their latest offer was $380ish top out for captains. But keep in mind you’re looking at a corvette with a civic motor…decent hourly rate but crap work rules. SY’s work rules are head and shoulders above us. We’re squabbling over them paying us a min day pay over here and leg/trip rigs.

 

are you talking about just the pilots are separate or the entire operation? Management told Wall Street that they will see 100m in “synergies” once they have a single operating certificate. Maybe others can help but i am pretty certain you can have a single certificate before a JCBA and SLI?

I think getting a 50% savings on 2/3 of your pilots is gonna outweigh whatever “synergies” management misses out on by having separate operations. Company is telling Wall Street there are synergies just on the revenue management and loyalty side.

Again, I’m not saying management wouldn’t like to get the JCBA done for all the unions, but we have a whole lot more to lose if we don’t get a deal until JCBA in 2030 than management does. Thats why I’m skeptical management will give us something that could get ratified.

my prediction: management gives us something they know won’t get ratified (think NK retirement, slight improvement to LTD and then SY rates with no work rule improvements). It goes for vote. Gets voted down. Management washes their hands, say they did their best, and drag us out for years in JCBA.

I hope I am wrong, but I remain skeptical.

 

Basically I was trying to say for the joint contract they will be more motivated because to capture all the joint savings we have to be working all as one. That does not help our cause now. It could however cause them issues on the retaining and if need recruiting side if they give us nothing now tell then. In the past even spirit gave the pilots something to be onboard to wait out the merger process. We shall see if G4 will follow.

 

in that sense then yes I agree, there will be opportunity for way more leverage during the JCBA no doubt. Totally agree.

right now, I think the leverage pie chart is a tiny slice for the union. That’s it. We can all thank JR, Robles, Josh, and all the IBT leadership etc when we see them for losing us all several hundreds of thousands. It’s infuriating how much they have screwed us.

 

<THIS>

But I encourage all, to not pull the "trigger" preemptively. As I said, we're all fatigued, exhausted of having weak, reckless and selfish leadership (choose to blame who you want). As well as having a pilot group that's been too apathetic, and some almost being complicit to support the bad leadership. I don't expect perfection, never have, from either company or union. I want progress, and finally some form of results. For too long union leadership put their thumb on the scale and refused to let the pilots decide "what is good enough" for them. Refusing to be realistic of the cards they held, or accept the little to no leverage they had. Before the merger announcement, the IBT had NO IDEA or believed there was a possibility of the merger. As I've said, we've been lead by people that refused to see past their noses; myopic.

I believe this has changed with the election, and can ONLY HOPE the company still "remains committed to delivering a contract we can be proud of". From what I've heard, the mediator will not entertain ANYMORE nonsense. Fingers crossed for these two days.

 

Yes you can have SOC first, we've had it for months, still working on JCBA. Unless a current CBA specifies otherwise. AS is enjoying most but not all of the synergies, while enjoying the lower rates on the HA side, plus any scheduling/soft time benefit they have with the AS CBA.

I'd tend to agree, especially if it looks like big raises are inevitable.

 

Regarding this issue, clarifying. I would assume that a single certificate with common opspecs would be required before the SOC element could be common to both operators?

Dispatch is obviously regulated where crew scheduling and other support would be more gray area.

Anyone have any experience here?

Also, does the Hawaiian cargo operate under part 117?