Ok, I'll join in.
Scope! We don't have it!
A yes vote allows joint ventures. This is simply a Cornell law deal.

joint ventures: an overview

A joint venture is a legal organization that takes the form of a short term partnership in which the persons jointly undertake a transaction for mutual profit. Generally each person contributes assets and share risks. Like a partnership, joint ventures can involve any type of business transaction and the "persons" involved can be individuals, groups of individuals, companies, or corporations.

Joint ventures are also widely used by companies to gain entrance into foreign markets. Foreign companies form joint ventures with domestic companies already present in markets the foreign companies would like to enter. The foreign companies generally bring new technologies and business practices into the joint venture, while the domestic companies already have the relationships and requisite governmental documents within the country along with being entrenched in the domestic industry.

MG is very open to business partnerships. Rumors of Mexico for us? Maybe not! Could be handled as a joint venture. As can any other agreement here in the States. This 'contract' is vague at best. Take a close look at scope. This is just the easiest example I looked at. There are really very few scope protections for us. It all depends on what is a "charter", what is a "joint venture", what is "purpose of marketing" etc.

Can you hire another group of pilots and aircraft to conduct a "marketing study" for new routes, airplanes, etc? Could it be a "joint venture"?

A vague "scope" guarantee to me!

(But I seem to get attacked whenever I'm on here, but I don't mean to offend. I truly see a lot of things we can easily patch up before we sign this. remember, it looks like we have an advantage of bargaining opportunity for the moment.......maybe we should take the opportunity!

 

Bridge contracts aren't 5-10 years long.

 

Vacation bidding is horrid unless you're in the top 10% in seat and base

 

Uh....I'm baffled. What exactly do you expect, to be guarenteed a window or aisle? I think "every reasonable effort" is sufficient. And your previous rant about a delayed show time? Is it Crew Scheduling's fault you have your phone off? A voicemail isn't good enough? You really expect them to call all 6 crew members repeatedly until they've personally talked to each one?

 

Guys, if this is some of the exact language from the scope section I would not read any further. File your NO vote now!

Our scope section at spirit as a paragraph that is literally identical except "capacity purchase" is not included in ours. It's a huge con. What's to stop them from selling all of our orders to another airline and then entering into a code share agreement with that airline and having that airline operate all the growth we would have been flying. Therefore, stagnating the seniority list until attrition and retirements shrink us out of existence. Then they just become a ticketing company that sells spirit flight xxx operated by frontier airlines.

The rest of the contract does not matter unless scope is locked down. Ask a southwest pilot why their TA failed. Ask a JetBlue pilot if they would have had wide bodies by now if it weren't for codesharing. Ask a delta pilot what the biggest scope hole they are trying to close (joint venture).

Do not read any further!! Vote no purely based on that one paragraph of scope. Without scope you potentially have no job so what's the rest of the contract worth then? Without solid LTD and you lose your most fragile asset, your medical, what's the rest of the contract worth then?

 

If you've ever worked for an airline that had "every reasonable effort" in the contract you'd know that that work rule may as well not exist. And yes your should expect to be guaranteed a window or an aisle. If that displaces a passenger then they will have to compensate a passenger just like they do when the have an overbooking issue. Leisure pax love free tickets. Someone will gladly go later for a free ticket (that they will probably let expire). We are fighting for big front seats on DH at spirit is my understanding. United pilots DH in first class only if the DH is on their line and that seat cannot be sold. If it's a last minute thing say on rsv and there are not first class seats then its economy plus and then on down to regular coach window or aisle. If they end up in a middle it's 150% pay.

Wake up man. Know what's out there at other carriers and you will know what you should be getting.

 

It's a perfectly good bridge contract if your goal is to leave

 

It seems to be a pro rata table for days avail. Two weeks of vacation would get you 20 days off.

 

It seems some want no single days, and conversely you want to be assured of 81 plus hours? umm, just like mgt, we want it all both (all) ways. In a 20ish pilot (small) base especially, it appears to be a mathematical impossibility to accomplish the schedules some want, no single days off, at an airline that only flies day trips and has very low trip count on a few days a week.

It kind of is what it is here, it will never be SWA of DAL. I don't think it is possible to get want people are wanting.

 

And if that call never comes?