APA's Unanimous Vote
02-18-2017, 07:18 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 431
Originally Posted by Route66
But I know why it's not important to YOU. As long as it hasn't happened to you it's ok. So when new hires get promoted over you out of seniority then let me know why you stay a bottom feeder. You're just a "snowflake" with NIMBY SYNDROME.
And even ANOTHER point, why don't YOU ask the others on this forum if LOS is an important issue for them? Really, how many of you reading this tripe DONT THINK LOS IS IMPORTANT? Either working for this airline or another airline? Be honest.
And even ANOTHER point, why don't YOU ask the others on this forum if LOS is an important issue for them? Really, how many of you reading this tripe DONT THINK LOS IS IMPORTANT? Either working for this airline or another airline? Be honest.
I'll try to respond to your ramblings. Your past three posts reinforce my reference about my concerns of your postings.
UNIONISM. Thanks for your views on the subject, but I am quite aware of what unionism is about. If you go back and read my previous posts you may understand that has been one of the very points I often raise. You may have caught my reference to David Behncke.
As for strikebrakers I'm very aware of that term as well. You ever watch strikers spit on cars and yell more four letters words than you could possible count as scabs leave the employee parking lot in their cars? I have. Google Continental 1983 pilot strike if you haven't. You recall United trying to break ALPA in 1985 and what the meaning of the "570" is? I do.
Unionism is about workers standing together to improve their collective situation.
Contrast that with your ramblings about your enemy is the very organization that is your union. About how you could care less about the junior pilot. All you care about is yourself. Your written viewpoint is the very reason you are in the situation you are in. Just like the senior (older) pilot before you who sold you out, your now willing to sell out the junior for your own protection.
LOS. Where did I ever post LOS doesn't matter? And that I don't think we need it? I'm also very aware of LOS and it's importance. But it is what it is at this point for all of us. No lawsuit will change any of it, so let's move on.
We all had choices in life. Many by design, some by luck, others by fate. But whatever the circumstance, when we showed up for initial new hire school we hitched our lives to the destiny of our individual carriers and the resultant aftermath that carrier would deliver.
Contrast the outcome of LOS for a Braniff, Frontier, Eastern, Pan Am, Aloha or ATA pilot with a US Airways, American, Delta, Northwest, United, Continental and Southwest pilot.
How about contrasting a Pan AM 747 CA with a UAL 747 CA in the Pan Am 747 acquisition. Southwest and Morris and AirTran. Eastern South America flying to American. American, Reno and TWA. Mergers within USAirways.
I could go on and on but each pilot cemented their own destiny when they tied their destiny to the fate of their own carrier. Some did better than others, just as you did better than some and worse than others.
Is LOS important? Yes. Is it the unifying issue to rally our pilots? No.
It's your issue it's not "the" issue.
DAL and UAL got full LOS for its furloughed pilots. So should we. Beyond that LOS is what it is. Your self-propelled misery and rants against your union, your peers and particularly our junior pilots will achieve nothing to foster unionism nor help us achieve the parity we deserve with our peers.
As for the the derogatory comments directed towards my junior views if being junior results in less knowledge, I'm sorry to say I can assure you that you have far less knowledge than I.
02-18-2017, 07:40 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by Upsddown
Route66,
I'll try to respond to your ramblings. Your past three posts reinforce my reference about my concerns of your postings.
UNIONISM. Thanks for your views on the subject, but I am quite aware of what unionism is about. If you go back and read my previous posts you may understand that has been one of the very points I often raise. You may have caught my reference to David Behncke.
As for strikebrakers I'm very aware of that term as well. You ever watch strikers spit on cars and yell more four letters words than you could possible count as scabs leave the employee parking lot in their cars? I have. Google Continental 1983 pilot strike if you haven't. You recall United trying to break ALPA in 1985 and what the meaning of the "570" is? I do.
Unionism is about workers standing together to improve their collective situation.
Contrast that with your ramblings about your enemy is the very organization that is your union. About how you could care less about the junior pilot. All you care about is yourself. Your written viewpoint is the very reason you are in the situation you are in. Just like the senior (older) pilot before you who sold you out, your now willing to sell out the junior for your own protection.
LOS. Where did I ever post LOS doesn't matter? And that I don't think we need it? I'm also very aware of LOS and it's importance. But it is what it is at this point for all of us. No lawsuit will change any of it, so let's move on.
We all had choices in life. Many by design, some by luck, others by fate. But whatever the circumstance, when we showed up for initial new hire school we hitched our lives to the destiny of our individual carriers and the resultant aftermath that carrier would deliver.
Contrast the outcome of LOS for a Braniff, Frontier, Eastern, Pan Am, Aloha or ATA pilot with a US Airways, American, Delta, Northwest, United, Continental and Southwest pilot.
How about contrasting a Pan AM 747 CA with a UAL 747 CA in the Pan Am 747 acquisition. Southwest and Morris and AirTran. Eastern South America flying to American. American, Reno and TWA. Mergers within USAirways.
I could go on and on but each pilot cemented their own destiny when they tied their destiny to the fate of their own carrier. Some did better than others, just as you did better than some and worse than others.
Is LOS important? Yes. Is it the unifying issue to rally our pilots? No.
It's your issue it's not "the" issue.
DAL and UAL got full LOS for its furloughed pilots. So should we. Beyond that LOS is what it is. Your self-propelled misery and rants against your union, your peers and particularly our junior pilots will achieve nothing to foster unionism nor help us achieve the parity we deserve with our peers.
As for the the derogatory comments directed towards my junior views if being junior results in less knowledge, I'm sorry to say I can assure you that you have far less knowledge than I.
I'll try to respond to your ramblings. Your past three posts reinforce my reference about my concerns of your postings.
UNIONISM. Thanks for your views on the subject, but I am quite aware of what unionism is about. If you go back and read my previous posts you may understand that has been one of the very points I often raise. You may have caught my reference to David Behncke.
As for strikebrakers I'm very aware of that term as well. You ever watch strikers spit on cars and yell more four letters words than you could possible count as scabs leave the employee parking lot in their cars? I have. Google Continental 1983 pilot strike if you haven't. You recall United trying to break ALPA in 1985 and what the meaning of the "570" is? I do.
Unionism is about workers standing together to improve their collective situation.
Contrast that with your ramblings about your enemy is the very organization that is your union. About how you could care less about the junior pilot. All you care about is yourself. Your written viewpoint is the very reason you are in the situation you are in. Just like the senior (older) pilot before you who sold you out, your now willing to sell out the junior for your own protection.
LOS. Where did I ever post LOS doesn't matter? And that I don't think we need it? I'm also very aware of LOS and it's importance. But it is what it is at this point for all of us. No lawsuit will change any of it, so let's move on.
We all had choices in life. Many by design, some by luck, others by fate. But whatever the circumstance, when we showed up for initial new hire school we hitched our lives to the destiny of our individual carriers and the resultant aftermath that carrier would deliver.
Contrast the outcome of LOS for a Braniff, Frontier, Eastern, Pan Am, Aloha or ATA pilot with a US Airways, American, Delta, Northwest, United, Continental and Southwest pilot.
How about contrasting a Pan AM 747 CA with a UAL 747 CA in the Pan Am 747 acquisition. Southwest and Morris and AirTran. Eastern South America flying to American. American, Reno and TWA. Mergers within USAirways.
I could go on and on but each pilot cemented their own destiny when they tied their destiny to the fate of their own carrier. Some did better than others, just as you did better than some and worse than others.
Is LOS important? Yes. Is it the unifying issue to rally our pilots? No.
It's your issue it's not "the" issue.
DAL and UAL got full LOS for its furloughed pilots. So should we. Beyond that LOS is what it is. Your self-propelled misery and rants against your union, your peers and particularly our junior pilots will achieve nothing to foster unionism nor help us achieve the parity we deserve with our peers.
As for the the derogatory comments directed towards my junior views if being junior results in less knowledge, I'm sorry to say I can assure you that you have far less knowledge than I.
So be it.
02-18-2017, 08:23 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 431
Originally Posted by Route66
Well bully for you. I disagree. LOS is the foundational principle of unionism. The mergers you mention are the very reason unions are going away. I don't follow you and you don't follow me. Your "promises" of unity ring hollow for those very reasons. We agree to disagree and that's about it. Up until USAPA left, where we tried to right this issue, I was on the side of junior. No more. You "junior" guys are smarter than us older guys therefore you live with it. The pilot profession is a loser. The profession of BEING a pilot is what I practice. You must be one of the LAA pilots furloughed and returned. I don't agree with you and you're obviously screwed.
So be it.
So be it.
As for me being LAA or being furloughed go read the last paragraph of my previous post. If you had read it and more importantly, understood it, you wouldn't have written that statement
02-18-2017, 09:12 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by Upsddown
Route66,
As for the the derogatory comments directed towards my junior views if being junior results in less knowledge, I'm sorry to say I can assure you that you have far less knowledge than I.
As for the the derogatory comments directed towards my junior views if being junior results in less knowledge, I'm sorry to say I can assure you that you have far less knowledge than I.
02-18-2017, 09:25 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Originally Posted by Upsddown
Route66,
I'll try to respond to your ramblings. Your past three posts reinforce my reference about my concerns of your postings.
UNIONISM. Thanks for your views on the subject, but I am quite aware of what unionism is about. If you go back and read my previous posts you may understand that has been one of the very points I often raise. You may have caught my reference to David Behncke.
As for strikebrakers I'm very aware of that term as well. You ever watch strikers spit on cars and yell more four letters words than you could possible count as scabs leave the employee parking lot in their cars? I have. Google Continental 1983 pilot strike if you haven't. You recall United trying to break ALPA in 1985 and what the meaning of the "570" is? I do.
Unionism is about workers standing together to improve their collective situation.
Contrast that with your ramblings about your enemy is the very organization that is your union. About how you could care less about the junior pilot. All you care about is yourself. Your written viewpoint is the very reason you are in the situation you are in. Just like the senior (older) pilot before you who sold you out, your now willing to sell out the junior for your own protection.
LOS. Where did I ever post LOS doesn't matter? And that I don't think we need it? I'm also very aware of LOS and it's importance. But it is what it is at this point for all of us. No lawsuit will change any of it, so let's move on.
We all had choices in life. Many by design, some by luck, others by fate. But whatever the circumstance, when we showed up for initial new hire school we hitched our lives to the destiny of our individual carriers and the resultant aftermath that carrier would deliver.
Contrast the outcome of LOS for a Braniff, Frontier, Eastern, Pan Am, Aloha or ATA pilot with a US Airways, American, Delta, Northwest, United, Continental and Southwest pilot.
How about contrasting a Pan AM 747 CA with a UAL 747 CA in the Pan Am 747 acquisition. Southwest and Morris and AirTran. Eastern South America flying to American. American, Reno and TWA. Mergers within USAirways.
I could go on and on but each pilot cemented their own destiny when they tied their destiny to the fate of their own carrier. Some did better than others, just as you did better than some and worse than others.
Is LOS important? Yes. Is it the unifying issue to rally our pilots? No.
It's your issue it's not "the" issue.
DAL and UAL got full LOS for its furloughed pilots. So should we. Beyond that LOS is what it is. Your self-propelled misery and rants against your union, your peers and particularly our junior pilots will achieve nothing to foster unionism nor help us achieve the parity we deserve with our peers.
As for the the derogatory comments directed towards my junior views if being junior results in less knowledge, I'm sorry to say I can assure you that you have far less knowledge than I.
I'll try to respond to your ramblings. Your past three posts reinforce my reference about my concerns of your postings.
UNIONISM. Thanks for your views on the subject, but I am quite aware of what unionism is about. If you go back and read my previous posts you may understand that has been one of the very points I often raise. You may have caught my reference to David Behncke.
As for strikebrakers I'm very aware of that term as well. You ever watch strikers spit on cars and yell more four letters words than you could possible count as scabs leave the employee parking lot in their cars? I have. Google Continental 1983 pilot strike if you haven't. You recall United trying to break ALPA in 1985 and what the meaning of the "570" is? I do.
Unionism is about workers standing together to improve their collective situation.
Contrast that with your ramblings about your enemy is the very organization that is your union. About how you could care less about the junior pilot. All you care about is yourself. Your written viewpoint is the very reason you are in the situation you are in. Just like the senior (older) pilot before you who sold you out, your now willing to sell out the junior for your own protection.
LOS. Where did I ever post LOS doesn't matter? And that I don't think we need it? I'm also very aware of LOS and it's importance. But it is what it is at this point for all of us. No lawsuit will change any of it, so let's move on.
We all had choices in life. Many by design, some by luck, others by fate. But whatever the circumstance, when we showed up for initial new hire school we hitched our lives to the destiny of our individual carriers and the resultant aftermath that carrier would deliver.
Contrast the outcome of LOS for a Braniff, Frontier, Eastern, Pan Am, Aloha or ATA pilot with a US Airways, American, Delta, Northwest, United, Continental and Southwest pilot.
How about contrasting a Pan AM 747 CA with a UAL 747 CA in the Pan Am 747 acquisition. Southwest and Morris and AirTran. Eastern South America flying to American. American, Reno and TWA. Mergers within USAirways.
I could go on and on but each pilot cemented their own destiny when they tied their destiny to the fate of their own carrier. Some did better than others, just as you did better than some and worse than others.
Is LOS important? Yes. Is it the unifying issue to rally our pilots? No.
It's your issue it's not "the" issue.
DAL and UAL got full LOS for its furloughed pilots. So should we. Beyond that LOS is what it is. Your self-propelled misery and rants against your union, your peers and particularly our junior pilots will achieve nothing to foster unionism nor help us achieve the parity we deserve with our peers.
As for the the derogatory comments directed towards my junior views if being junior results in less knowledge, I'm sorry to say I can assure you that you have far less knowledge than I.
Unions are losing more than winning. Delta, United and SWA seem to be holding their own for now, but as for the rest, time will tell. Let's just say this: I'm anti-union. Period. It hasn't worked well at all here at American since LAA established the B scale.
But nontheless, the contract we have now is the contract we are going to have for the remainder of my tenure which is 6 years f I'm now....unless they bump up the retirement age.....which will still make no difference in my pay.
02-18-2017, 09:29 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,238
Hey upsanddown, spell it out since I'm so dense. When were you hired at American? Were you a strikebreaker at Continental or and striker? I've been at US Airways since mid-eighties. Never furloughed. WHERE WERE YOU Mr. Union man?
02-18-2017, 10:13 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 431
Route66,
If LOS is the very foundation of unionism and if you believe in it so strongly then how many times over your past 30 plus years have you written or called your union representatives demanding that the former Braniff pilots hired in the 80's be given full LOS for the huge sacrifices they endured after the grounding of their airline? Surely their sacrifice is "as bad or worse" than a merger.
I bet absolutely zero. Why? Because that fundamental application of unionism would not have benefited you at all. Remember, we are taking about personal greed and the lack of unionism. If you're going to preach about it, at least try to live by it.
If LOS is the very foundation of unionism and if you believe in it so strongly then how many times over your past 30 plus years have you written or called your union representatives demanding that the former Braniff pilots hired in the 80's be given full LOS for the huge sacrifices they endured after the grounding of their airline? Surely their sacrifice is "as bad or worse" than a merger.
I bet absolutely zero. Why? Because that fundamental application of unionism would not have benefited you at all. Remember, we are taking about personal greed and the lack of unionism. If you're going to preach about it, at least try to live by it.
02-18-2017, 10:25 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 431
Originally Posted by Route66
Hey upsanddown, spell it out since I'm so dense. When were you hired at American? Were you a strikebreaker at Continental or and striker? I've been at US Airways since mid-eighties. Never furloughed. WHERE WERE YOU Mr. Union man?
I'm a AAL pilot. With a AAL pilot seniority number. And just like you I will be to the day I retire.
Doesn't matter where I came from. Where I've been. Or what I think my seniority number should be. I'm here at AAL now with a seniority number whose relative placement amongst my fellow pilots will not change.
I believe in unionism because without it we would only be that much worse off. I like my job. Enjoy working with my fellow pilots. And have every intent on continuing to fight to make this profession better for us all. Senior and Junior alike.
Unlike you I fully intend to keep fighting
so that those that have recently arrived and are about to arrive may have a much better career than we had.
I wish mine had been somehow better but I am not about to screw the junior pilot as you allude to so that my final years are somewhat more lucrative.
That's definitely not unionism.
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