Yea true. But there wasn’t any polls put out about LOS and it was the right thing to do.

If we say let’s take a vote there’s a good chance seniority could win out.

 

Not a commuter, and I've only used the IVR JS system a few times. Interested to learn the rationale behind preferring FCFS to the hybrid system? I think the old-school pure seniority system is BS. Pilots losing commutes at the gate due to a seniority # duel is bad for pilots and the company.

I personally like FCFS, but then I'm pretty junior. It seems reasonable to move to a hybrid system where a senior guy who is flying when the system opens still has a chance to get the JS, but slackers who couldn't be bothered can't bump us at the gate. What am I missing?

 

My main problem is the proposed timeline. 4 days of seniority with the last 3 as FCFS (if the seat is still open). The first four days (days 7-4 out) are essentially an auction. Your going to have guys waiting till day 4 to book, so for planning purposes you have no stability (knowledge that the seat is yours) until day 3. Let’s face it, unless you’re the number 1 guy in your base, you just never know. You will leave for a 4 day trip not knowing if you’ll get the seat coming home.

With the current system, I can look at my trip and if I don’t get the seat, I can start trying to trade for a better trip 7 days out, or book an earlier seat, etc. also, I know that I’m going to get home BEFORE I even leave on the trip.

If we go Hybrid, I’d propose opening up the reservation period to 8 days out. First 2 days are seniority based, next 6 are FCFS if the seat is open after the first 2. Still gives considers seniority but also allows for planning.

 

What are you missing? The attitude of "you'll be senior one day, son". Probably from guys that got screwed back then with the B scale!

I am probably the most negative guy out here when it comes to the IVR system/FCFS vs seniority. I *had* to double commute for four years and now I am *enjoying* a single flight a day to and from my home airport. It is my choice (I won't bore you with my personal sobering story whether it's really a choice) and yes, commuting sucks.

A brief history about the IVR/FCFS system: That was probably the only thing that LUS and LAWA could agree on (besides the fact that they HATED each other), it was fair to almost everyone (except procrastinators and in some situations guys on reserve) even the jumpseater was weight protected aka the company in the worst case had to bump a revenue passenger.

It took some real man of genius aka TW to completely f up this system. Everybody backed this system when it was first introduced to LAA, but TW made a stink about it. It got so bad in the APA henhouse that the company told APA that they would keep the current system, but the js weight protection was no more!

Another brilliant move by APA was the elimination of the last leg trip swap. Let's say you were on your last leg back to base, but you'd miss your commute home because you get in too late. If there was a pilot rated in the same ac and seat, (s)he could fly the last leg of the sequence for you. You still got paid, and the commuting pilot flew for free. Obviously, you both had to agree.

Some real geniuses from a different f world shook their heads in dismay and anger because they didn't see the sense of flying for free. Now it is gone. Whether something makes sense to you or not doesn't matter anymore, APA will make decisions for you.

There had been discussions about change of union. My personal view is to vote those idiots out. A new union with the same db is not gonna change anything.

 

But it won't give those senior guys with the "I've been here 500 years" attitude the satisfaction just to walk up to the gate and claim THEIR jumpseat that they so rightfully deserve.

That's what it's all about!

 

I’m LAA, a commuter, and junior in my bid status, I prefer the current FCFS system. Having said that, the bold part isn’t going to help the cause. The Jumpseat isn’t just for commuters.

 

Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
“Maybe the vote could be limited to those who actually commute.
IMO, non-commuters don’t have a say in this. They are not affected in any meaningful way.l”

EXACTLY. LAA and senior. I like the Hybrid system suggested that goes Seniority for the first two days then fcfs, which honors seniority for at least a couple of days but then gives everyone else time to plan. But, the “non-commuters don’t have a say in this” line is BS. Your choice (yeah, that’s right, NOBODY has a gun to your head) to commute is not my problem. The JS is for EVERY PILOT!

 

I'm not a commuter anymore and I'm a huge proponent of the current system (with many improvements...hybrid not being one of them).

This is not a smart road to take.

 

No one has a gun to your head, but the threat of divorce might feel like one.

The "Commuting is a choice" is an idiotic statement. You don't know that person's life situation. Are you going to pay for a new hire to pack up and move to NYC on year 1 pay while on probation when that person already lives in DFW?

The current system is fair. It should stay in place. Nobody has a gun to your head to go on vacation. Your inability to use a basic phone system and plane ahead is not my problem. The JS is for EVERY PILOT, not just senior pilots.

 

The JS is just another seat on the airplane like seat 14B is. It's in the company interest to give the best opportunity for guys to get to work without last minute pop up commute issues.

Unless you're #1 you would have to put in a bunch of phone calls in order to secure at least one jump seat. It just seems like a solution in search of a problem.

What does kinda upset me about the nonrev system is that the Express guys are riding around as D2's with us. At Delta they are below mainline employees. I see both arguments but the company has chosen to use our pass benefits as a way to attract people to work at the Express carriers in lieu of paying them more.