Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2825262)

If you listen carefully during one of the questions about recalls it addresses one of my points about this combined IAM TWU agreement. Several airports had hit cliffs requiring increased staffing due to mainline flight numbers. This is a big deal. As more mainline flights go in and out of stations, it may require swapping Envoy for mainline staffing AND hiring other support staff such as facilities maintenance and is a huge component of our costs. 1/4 of the company is union ground handling and facility maintenance. Yes we have unionized ground maintenance workers who work on jetways and ground power etc. This is one reason the company continues to pursue using Envoy RJs over mainline 100 seaters or even increased jets of any type. I remember hearing somewhere Isom I believe stating they were happy with the fleet size moving forward and would simply up-gauge as needed in the future.

Yet look at all the pilots that "support" the ground handlers. It's insane. No other airline employs unionized "stock clerks" that distribute parts. Or do grounds maintenance. Etc.

IMO the APA, SWAPA, ALPA, etc have all gone about this bargaining incorrectly. They needed to take a page from the AMA and restrict pilot supply. The 1,500 rule was a gift from god himself. Higher barriers to entry have accomplished what decades of bargaining never even came close to doing. That is how you accomplish meaningful lasting wage and benefit gains.

Looking at those videos I can imagine myself in Isom's shoes when the NYC subway worker says they are going to fight. He's going to get a huge wake up call when they strike, the company locks them out and says "bye Felicia!" and puts thousands of management and support staff to work (and contracts out with other ground handling companies or just starts another one). *Poof* no more union workers!

I had no idea Isom came from NWA. It's all coming together now.

On a side note that NYC subway worker embodies unionized workgroups. Look up some articles on NYC and LI subway workers and not only their yearly pay but retirement pensions. They are soaking the local government and taxpayers and shut down public transportation on a whim. They have no competition and as such can afford to do this. If they shut AA down we are f'd. Everyone at AA will lose. These people are directly impacting our lives and economic futures so people without a HS diploma with zero invested in their "career" can load pieces of luggage and make $70k a year doing so.

I guess that makes me an ahole to think like that.

Originally Posted by mainlineAF (Post 2825296)

That was hard to watch.

Why are the mechanics tied up with the rampers? That would be like us negotiating with the flight attendants. What a nightmare.

Originally Posted by 206321 (Post 2825440)

Just support your fellow union employees. How pi$$ed off would the pilots be after 5 years into the merger with no contract?

You look at them and think some of their proposals and asks are silly, but I can promise you that they look at pilots the same way... with some prima donna stuff in our contract too. Do you want them to support us when we are battling it out with management or not?

I understand the importance with seeing both side's point of view in situations like this.... but I certainly agree with the mechanics on this one. The company is downright greedy in outsourcing their jobs. The company would outsource everything up to the B777/A330 to the "regionals" if they could. Would you let them, or put your foot down and fight?

Originally Posted by AAfng (Post 2825724)

"The company will sign Delta or United ground contracts right now. Would we be negotiating if the company offers that?
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Originally Posted by Name User (Post 2825715)

Every other work group rides our coat tails. The fact there are even mainline or regional/eagle flights is because of the pilot scope contract. If we were to sign away scope it would mean FAs, DXs, ground crew go away completely. And you want me to support a group that has zero invested in a "career" throwing bags? I'm sorry but no. They owe us, we don't owe them anything.

The company will sign Delta or United ground contracts right now. Would we be negotiating if the company offers that?

They are being insanely unreasonable. I don't support unreasonable.

The mechanics are tied to them, and are getting screwed. That is on them for tying up with the ground handlers and stock clerks.

Honestly at this point I welcome self help and a company lockout. I don't see it getting resolved any other way.