Well if thats the case then why arent they asking for a Tesla a month for every month of the contract as a bonus?

Dude, seriously? How long have you been here at AA? This company is operating off our backs. The pilot contract from 5 years ago is yet to be fully implemented. The company blatantly walks over us. The management despises us. Stop being a shill for them.

$12B in stock buy backs. They are mortgaging off our future and using our productivity to fill the pockets of their Wall Street friends. All the while working off bankruptcy contracts. Time for them to pay up or suffer the consequences.

For the most part I completely agree with you. Just asking if there is a limit to whats reasonable or not. I believe there is a limit, do you?

Of course there would be a limit to their demands. And no reasonable person would think that they are even remotely close to that limit.

Comparing protecting their jobs from outsourcing with a Tesla for every mechanic is completely ridiculous.

I always get a kick out of major pilots who think that their paycheck, schedule and lifestyle are all a product of their hard work alone. It is not. It is the product of pilots and union workers combining forces with the labor union. It is the product of collective bargaining. It is the product of protecting your job (scope). So, the mechanic, ground workers, FAs success is our success.

"They owe us, we don't owe them anything."

"BK are good, and those damned union pensions are just too expensive, and they all make too much and don't work hard enough..."

All regular predictable comments from pilots.

Excepting of course when the BK is used to steal their pensions and force them to work harder or more for less.

That'sdifferent.

(Yeah... I have earned my living in this business for 42 years now, 33 of those as a pilot...)

First that $12b is shareholder money not yours. Labor doesn't own the company.

Most of the items not implemented we don't actually want implemented, such as electronic notification. We make good wages, well above most pilots not only worldwide but also in the US. Delta has better overall compensation right now due to their profit sharing. So who cares? A pilot group or two makes more than us. I really don't care.

As for stepping over us, I have actually not seen that at all. I'm sure it happens occasionally but for the vast majority of cases I have had excellent and positive experiences with chiefs and scheduling. Even the hotels desk. A few weeks ago we had an unscheduled overnight in IAH, we walked to the desk and saw a couple dozen UAL crewmembers looking for rooms, meanwhile we were assigned some within three minutes.

I would much rather have a viable company that thinks long term than one that becomes the old US Air, burdened with contracts it cannot afford to pay and is rife with waste.

How many US Airways guys want a repeat of their careers? How many TWA guys want a repeat? How many post 2000 AA pilots want a repeat? Keep in mind SWA grew like gang busters back then while AA and US lost market share and jobs.

AA had an amazing run which many forget was brought on by the B scale. They were the SWA of the 80's. Piedmont was going nuts under Bethune until...US Air bought them. Bethune went to CAL and they too did extremely well with their lower labor costs. AWA had a similar run in the 90's, also due to lower labor cost advantages.

Delta has been nonunion and while they paid their pilots they didn't have nearly the same cost structure other carriers did due to non-union employees offering flexibility. Yet look here, at how many still want our ground handlers to make $70k/yr to move bags.

In 2010 or so a US Airways ground handler came up to the cockpit and was talking about their "stolen" pensions". He didn't miss a beat. He used that as motivation to get off his ass and put his money to work for him. He was accumulating rental homes to replace his pension, something he could've done long ago and been retired by then.

Most guys here are fat dumb and happy and feel entitled to more. No one owes us anything.

I totally agree it's BS upper management gets untouchable pensions and RSUs. But we are not upper management. Someone who is at a VP level has a lot of stress and pressure on their job to perform. Believe it or not we are actually paid more than most of them anyway. Hands down we are some of the highest paid employees at the company, at least from the director side down.

Oh and BTW, Parker and Isom have lost tens of millions on their stock personally. Meanwhile our wages have not gone down.

My biggest beef with AA management is their lack of focus on our customers. They treat the airline as public transportation with little regard for branding. Delta figured it out. Spirit owns it's brand - cheap transportation from A to B. What is AA? Nothing special. If we aren't careful we will be the next US Air.

To me, the biggest sticking point seems is the retirement/resign issue, and the company being able to outsource any new hirer/replacement positions. I honestly don’t think that’s a huge ask by their union to have that language removed and shows the pure greed of the company, the board, their negotiating lawyers and so on. It’s minimal savings over the short term, and probably minimal over the long term, but gains today for the company. I thinks it more of a union busting play for short term business models. This won’t affect any of the Execs, BOD, or the market in 15 years. All of them will be gone and the market will be dealing with what’s happening in the world in 15 years. Which means it’s a power play to bust the union now, to get returns now! It’s all perception today, not 15 years from now as they (Managememt) claim it’s about future success of AA. Busting a union with that language gives the investors and the market a “company won” today view. Thus gains will be made. No one cares about Isom’s and team 15 year plan cause he really doesn’t either.

It kinda hard for me to see the company’s side on saving minimal amount of money in their eyes, when it’s seems more about busting a union. It’s also hard to see the company as caring about AA and it’s “team members” when they have jeopardized the future of AA financially with stock buyback, a huge debt load, and uncontrolled spending. It is literally in our faces, and mine daily right now in long term training. Pretty amazing to see the amount of arrogance, ego and greed this leadership team has each time I drive passed the new HQ on the way to the training center. It’s a complete monument to stroke their ego and mental masterbation on their perception. It’s a waste. The old HQ was fine as a building. They could’ve saved millions refurbishing and remodeling that already existing facility. This ain’t about money or success. It’s about the perception of power and feeding of greed.

Drinks you make good, logical valid points.

I too agree the backfill provision is the major sticking point. But keep in mind WHY the company is asking for it - it's simply because we have (by far) the largest % of ground handling and mtc done by our own people.

In a perfect world everything would be AA. I would bet the company would even prefer it as it means more management jobs. But when the union comes in and makes that entry level baggage handler job a career job with medical and pension, meanwhile Delta's costs are under half, there is significant incentive to outsource. The union wants ALL the jobs with higher pay. That is what put US Air in their position after the PSA/Piedmont mergers.

As for the new HQ - building such an extravagant (set!) of buildings is a good example of not leading by example. You don't see the carriers they are comparing themselves to building massive trophy towers. Where is their fiscal restraint? Yet they want us to sit in hot-ass airplanes to save $10 in gas? Management and our support staff sit in air conditioned offices, meanwhile I sat in the back of a 737 commuting home yesterday that must've been 90*if not warmer for the pushback and 30 min taxi. The pax around me were livid and kept making remarks about how hot it was.

when the union comes in and makes that entry level baggage handler job a career job with medical and pension,

Wouldn't want those people doing the work that produces the revenue making a decent living, having health insurance or maybe a small pension...

No... Not every job should pay $100k or $300k, but labor and those that provide it have value too.

Pensions are Ponzi schemes. They were created by feudal German lords and live on to this day from personal idiocy.

A typical 401k, I can understand, but pensions are ridiculous.