Republic Airline Unilateral JS Action
09-05-2019, 08:01 AM
#251
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: Jumpseat
Posts: 92
[QUOTE=AverageCoffee;2881760]
Then they shouldn’t have sold out on scope. They would have all the control because it’s their airplanes operated by American. If they can’t look in the mirror then we cannot have a rationale argument.
Originally Posted by Web265
I don’t write too many completely serious things, but here is an attempt;
I haven’t spoken to ANYONE at RAH would “deny” any AA or WO pilot the Jumpseat. They will however respect the priority listed in our FOM, I think there a huge difference here.
Your FOM was revised specifically to push AA pilots to the bottom of the list. Hoping to spur the pilots into action to take up arms against AA management to effect change. This assumes there’s nothing else the pilots of American have going on to improve their own QOL with management. Since that’s not true let’s be real about what’s going to happen here. A mainline pilot is going to get left behind while a Delta pilot sits on an American Eagle jumpseat. Knowing what you know about pilots, who is that pilot going to blame for going out of priority order and being left at the gate? If you answered AA management you are wrong.
Just to be clear, I understand the complaint that RAH pilots have brought up. I’m simply taking a guess at what the real result is going to be.
It appears Teamsters has exhausted all avenues and RAH management agreed to a change in your FOM. Hope I’m wrong and it works out the way you want.
I haven’t spoken to ANYONE at RAH would “deny” any AA or WO pilot the Jumpseat. They will however respect the priority listed in our FOM, I think there a huge difference here.
Your FOM was revised specifically to push AA pilots to the bottom of the list. Hoping to spur the pilots into action to take up arms against AA management to effect change. This assumes there’s nothing else the pilots of American have going on to improve their own QOL with management. Since that’s not true let’s be real about what’s going to happen here. A mainline pilot is going to get left behind while a Delta pilot sits on an American Eagle jumpseat. Knowing what you know about pilots, who is that pilot going to blame for going out of priority order and being left at the gate? If you answered AA management you are wrong.
Just to be clear, I understand the complaint that RAH pilots have brought up. I’m simply taking a guess at what the real result is going to be.
It appears Teamsters has exhausted all avenues and RAH management agreed to a change in your FOM. Hope I’m wrong and it works out the way you want.
09-05-2019, 09:10 AM
#252
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Position: ERJ-170
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by AAfng
we dont care, really
Obviously, that’s not the case. (Post number ?)
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09-05-2019, 10:07 AM
#253
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Pawn
Posts: 1,138
If ever there was a reason to bring the Eagle flying back to wholly owned carriers like it used to be, this thread is it. Mainline should take every bit of flying that can be done in an economical manner, and the rest should go to people who actually have a vested interest in AAG and not a bunch of hired guns who screw their PA’s up with which airline they’re flying for today.
Are the Republic guys gettin a raw deal? Debatable. I can see both ways. Are they stirring up a hornets nets and taking unilateral action outside the scope of their company’s CPA with AA? Absolutely.
Are the Republic guys gettin a raw deal? Debatable. I can see both ways. Are they stirring up a hornets nets and taking unilateral action outside the scope of their company’s CPA with AA? Absolutely.
09-05-2019, 10:22 AM
#254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by MD-11Loader
Are they stirring up a hornets nets and taking unilateral action outside the scope of their company’s CPA with AA? Absolutely.
09-05-2019, 10:30 AM
#255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,097
As bad as it would be for profit sharing I would really like to see AA go back to the way they used to do their feed, with Eagle doing all of it. AA mainline and the WO's as the only ones flying AA passengers.
However with the flow like it is, it would be tough to staff the ramp up along with attrition, plus order more 170's to replace Republic and SkyWest.
However with the flow like it is, it would be tough to staff the ramp up along with attrition, plus order more 170's to replace Republic and SkyWest.
09-05-2019, 10:38 AM
#256
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by captive apple
I think we’d all love to hear if you can expand on this in detail.
It can be FCFS without a convoluted mess, and you know that, but that isn't enough.
To be as elementary reciprocal as you want, RAH needs to build their own app and website to display load factors and allow for JS listings.
09-05-2019, 10:45 AM
#257
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Position: ERJ-170
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Name User
...... it would be tough to staff the ramp up along with attrition, plus order more 170's to replace Republic and SkyWest.
You can’t get them to fix what is essentially an IT problem but you think there’s a chance you can convince management to go all in house, buy new aircraft and hire hundreds of new crew members quickly? That’s rich.
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09-05-2019, 10:49 AM
#258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Position: Non-standard Phraseology Curator
Posts: 296
As I've followed now a 26 page ****ing match between pilot groups, I can't help but think a few things...
1. The routes do indeed belong to AA, and I don't think there's a single one of us 'regional pukes' that wouldn't mind seeing the routes taken back by mainline, thus opening up more opportunity for us 'pukes' to have the job we truly desire. I would even think the WO guys would agree to that. However, in the current system, the jumpseat belongs to us. That's the only seat on the aircraft we have control over. We're asking for, and now enforcing, a level playing field and truly reciprocal agreement with AA, not denying any pilot the right to occupy it. If you guys can't list D6 except at the gate, well there's impetus for change right there. We play by AA's rules every day when it comes to the JS, and we as a feeder to AA's network get screwed by guys that don't help AA out on a daily basis.
2. We really aren't asking for much, and whether it be FDJ or an AA policy change, we really should have priority over OAL (but below AA/WO, of course) on AA metal since we do in fact support AA's network. It can be as simple as the way Delta does it: if you are a pilot in support of Delta/Delta Connection, you have priority over OAL on mainline or another Connection carrier metal. That's just Delta written policy that's tribal knowledge and pretty much squashes any dispute at the gate. This ensures that OAL doesn't get the JS over me since I contribute to Delta's bottomline. If even that becomes AA law, problem mostly solved for those of us it really matters to. Same policy exists at United. AA is just consistently behind the curve in almost every metric.
3. Yes we do fly for 3 codeshares. Yes it's true we could occupy a jumpseat on AA metal that could ultimately be in the support of another codeshare. But so can any other OAL guy that bumps us off the jumpseat that contributes $0 to your paycheck. We (YX) do contribute to your paycheck, and we work hard to do that. Who owns what portion of what really is irrelevant...if we continue to fly American paint, we continue to feed AAG's bottomline by doing mainline's job for a cut rate, and I tend to think we do a really great job at that. If we didn't and AA/WO's could staff or afford the flying, we wouldn't exist. Reality is they can't or don't want to because they would have to pay a lot more to do so. We own the aircraft, so we can't simply be brought in-house or shifted around a la Compass/Mesa, etc. So for as long as we continue to support AAG, is it so much to ask that we have a better shot at getting to work on time or at all vs someone that doesn't?
4. I think what bothers me the most about these ****ing matches is no matter what company a pilot might work for, it always appears on the face that there's very little camaraderie or support for the other pilot. It's just so vitriolic whenever the other guy feels offended. We've been getting the short end of the stick for years, but when we finally stand up for what should be a no-brainer, suddenly everyone wants to burn the house down. We're all doing the same job. I go to work every day doing the same job as a mainline guy for half the paycheck. Does that make me half as important as the guy at mainline? I tend to think not. There's no magic sauce at mainline that doesn't exist at a regional. Same exact job getting people from A to B, half the pay. I would love to be at mainline, but we're still stuck in this arcane hiring system, so I continue to pay my dues like the rest of my fellow pukes. I just wish everyone would grow up sometimes and have a little more respect for us that work just as hard (I could even argue a lot harder) for half the reward and security. That's not just a YX vs mainline statement, but all the mainline guys that look down their noses at regional guys. We all had to start somewhere...
So instead of spending 10 minutes keyboard warrior'ing and belittling another guy on APC, spend 5 minutes emailing your managers and unions to encourage them to work toward a solution that's amicable for all. This isn't just a YX problem, but the other carriers that support AAG and might get you or the guy you sit next to on the flight deck to work on time. We've been trying, and stonewalled, for years to make this happen. Don't spit in the face of some regional guy that's just trying to get to work to put food on his or her table. We work hard to keep your paychecks nice and fat while truly getting the raw end of the deal, so why shouldn't you at least help us be able to more fairly get to work so we can continue to keep your paychecks fat? When we can't get to work because an OAL guy bumps us and a flight down line delays or cancels because a crewmember ultimately on your team got screwed out of a seat, that directly affects AAG's, and to a certain extent, your bottomline.
No wars, no disparaging, just simple fairness the way it's done at every other shop.
1. The routes do indeed belong to AA, and I don't think there's a single one of us 'regional pukes' that wouldn't mind seeing the routes taken back by mainline, thus opening up more opportunity for us 'pukes' to have the job we truly desire. I would even think the WO guys would agree to that. However, in the current system, the jumpseat belongs to us. That's the only seat on the aircraft we have control over. We're asking for, and now enforcing, a level playing field and truly reciprocal agreement with AA, not denying any pilot the right to occupy it. If you guys can't list D6 except at the gate, well there's impetus for change right there. We play by AA's rules every day when it comes to the JS, and we as a feeder to AA's network get screwed by guys that don't help AA out on a daily basis.
2. We really aren't asking for much, and whether it be FDJ or an AA policy change, we really should have priority over OAL (but below AA/WO, of course) on AA metal since we do in fact support AA's network. It can be as simple as the way Delta does it: if you are a pilot in support of Delta/Delta Connection, you have priority over OAL on mainline or another Connection carrier metal. That's just Delta written policy that's tribal knowledge and pretty much squashes any dispute at the gate. This ensures that OAL doesn't get the JS over me since I contribute to Delta's bottomline. If even that becomes AA law, problem mostly solved for those of us it really matters to. Same policy exists at United. AA is just consistently behind the curve in almost every metric.
3. Yes we do fly for 3 codeshares. Yes it's true we could occupy a jumpseat on AA metal that could ultimately be in the support of another codeshare. But so can any other OAL guy that bumps us off the jumpseat that contributes $0 to your paycheck. We (YX) do contribute to your paycheck, and we work hard to do that. Who owns what portion of what really is irrelevant...if we continue to fly American paint, we continue to feed AAG's bottomline by doing mainline's job for a cut rate, and I tend to think we do a really great job at that. If we didn't and AA/WO's could staff or afford the flying, we wouldn't exist. Reality is they can't or don't want to because they would have to pay a lot more to do so. We own the aircraft, so we can't simply be brought in-house or shifted around a la Compass/Mesa, etc. So for as long as we continue to support AAG, is it so much to ask that we have a better shot at getting to work on time or at all vs someone that doesn't?
4. I think what bothers me the most about these ****ing matches is no matter what company a pilot might work for, it always appears on the face that there's very little camaraderie or support for the other pilot. It's just so vitriolic whenever the other guy feels offended. We've been getting the short end of the stick for years, but when we finally stand up for what should be a no-brainer, suddenly everyone wants to burn the house down. We're all doing the same job. I go to work every day doing the same job as a mainline guy for half the paycheck. Does that make me half as important as the guy at mainline? I tend to think not. There's no magic sauce at mainline that doesn't exist at a regional. Same exact job getting people from A to B, half the pay. I would love to be at mainline, but we're still stuck in this arcane hiring system, so I continue to pay my dues like the rest of my fellow pukes. I just wish everyone would grow up sometimes and have a little more respect for us that work just as hard (I could even argue a lot harder) for half the reward and security. That's not just a YX vs mainline statement, but all the mainline guys that look down their noses at regional guys. We all had to start somewhere...
So instead of spending 10 minutes keyboard warrior'ing and belittling another guy on APC, spend 5 minutes emailing your managers and unions to encourage them to work toward a solution that's amicable for all. This isn't just a YX problem, but the other carriers that support AAG and might get you or the guy you sit next to on the flight deck to work on time. We've been trying, and stonewalled, for years to make this happen. Don't spit in the face of some regional guy that's just trying to get to work to put food on his or her table. We work hard to keep your paychecks nice and fat while truly getting the raw end of the deal, so why shouldn't you at least help us be able to more fairly get to work so we can continue to keep your paychecks fat? When we can't get to work because an OAL guy bumps us and a flight down line delays or cancels because a crewmember ultimately on your team got screwed out of a seat, that directly affects AAG's, and to a certain extent, your bottomline.
No wars, no disparaging, just simple fairness the way it's done at every other shop.
09-05-2019, 10:53 AM
#259
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 774
The other issue that may crop up if RAH decides their Flightdeck JS is a separate country is, AA/WO will list for both the cabin and D6.
You have made a successful argument that AA current Travel Planner listing rules do not apply and therefore the limit to one listing does not apply since the RAH FDJS is completely separate and governed only by RAH FOM and RAH CA.
The WO/AA js however is not completely separate and follows the priority list order limiting your listing to just one.
You have made a successful argument that AA current Travel Planner listing rules do not apply and therefore the limit to one listing does not apply since the RAH FDJS is completely separate and governed only by RAH FOM and RAH CA.
The WO/AA js however is not completely separate and follows the priority list order limiting your listing to just one.
09-05-2019, 11:00 AM
#260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: ERJ 170
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by Happyflyer
The other issue that may crop up if RAH decides their Flightdeck JS is a separate country is, AA/WO will list for both the cabin and D6.
You have made a successful argument that AA current Travel Planner listing rules do not apply and therefore the limit to one listing does not apply since the RAH FDJS is completely separate and governed only by RAH FOM and RAH CA.
The WO/AA js however is not completely separate and follows the priority list order limiting your listing to just one.
You have made a successful argument that AA current Travel Planner listing rules do not apply and therefore the limit to one listing does not apply since the RAH FDJS is completely separate and governed only by RAH FOM and RAH CA.
The WO/AA js however is not completely separate and follows the priority list order limiting your listing to just one.
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