Yes PSA. But If it sounds about right, you’re making my point then. These people go to AA, and you seem to not want them there. But there’s no filter to flush them out.

So tell us again how long you have been at AA? You must have been hired outside the flow. Tell all of us lazy flows how you managed to be such a superior candidate than the rest of us.

Looking at your post history you don’t even work at AA, so you have no idea what you are talking about.

I saw it sitting there high centered, can confirm.

So you were hired in the 90s?
Back then going to Eagle was right up there with the kiss of death trying to go to AA.

I have meet and known guys from Eagle that couldn't go elsewhere for various reasons. If it wasn't for the flow, they would still be stuck at the commuters or the non-skeds.

In short, there needs to be a better mechanism for screening to the majors rather than just working at one of the wholly owneds for "X years". (spare me the comment of working at a WO is one long job interview)

On the L-US side, they still had to interview.

No, sorry the flow did exist with the 824 when I got hired at Eagle, but it didn't exist for new hires. That's what I meant. When I went to eagle I didn't plan on having a flow agreement. I was part of the protected pilots and that agreement didn't exist yet. Either way, I'm not sure why that matters. I was just making a point that for some people AA is their first choice. The reason we flow isn't because we can't get hired elsewhere. Some people were making it out be that if we were worth hiring that Delta and United would have already hired us, so the pool of flows were of lesser quality. Maybe some guys can't get hired because they don't have a degree or something but who cares. As long as they are a good pilot, I'm not sure why a fellow line pilot would care about that.

As long as the flows are good pilots and good to work with, which I'm sure the overwhelming majority are, then I don't see why so many people are against it. I'm not sure where the idea that some people are good enough for the regionals but not the majors comes from. Get over yourself. It's the same job just different aircraft. I worked with a lot of people at Eagle over the years and 99% were great to work with. I never had any problems getting along with anyone, so I seriously doubt those same people are going to be terrible to work with at AA.

I'm sure there are some "bad apples" occasionally that get through, but don't kid yourself and pretend like they are only the flows and without the flows that would never happen. I bet its a very small percentage. If it was a major problem, then I'm sure the flow would have already stopped.

I am not at AA, and my posts clearly say “what I saw at the wholly owned.” Having been at one for a few years and having many friends at AA, I’d say I know a little about the things I mentioned. I’m guessing you’re a flow such as I described and that I struck a nerve?

The currents guys flowing are actually the good ones who got stuck in the regionals due to bankruptcies, age 65, and all of the previous things. They weren’t hired during the current regional interview process of scraping the bottom of the barrel. Those will flow in a couple years however, and I think that’s when people are going to really want to tear the flow agreements apart.

Well you worked at 1 wholly owned, which the majority of flows don't come from. You said that most flows are lazy slobs and that we don't care about the company. None of that is true. You clearly don't know what you are talking about. So you come on here and insult several thousand people you don't know and have never worked with and wonder why I might take offense to that?

Lol like the guy above, who I’m guessing is AA now, wanted to attack the people who have worked at PSA and say “sounds about right?” His angst towards an entire pilot group is humorous because guess what? Thanks to the flow, he will be working with that pilot group (the ones he clearly despised) for the rest of his career. Not sure if you’re reading comprehension is off but I was saying what I saw at a single wholly owned. People that i WORKED WITH. Then the second part where I said the current flows aren’t the issue or the ones I’m really talking about as opposed to the upcoming years of pilots that will be flowing. I’ve yet to hear an argument against what I’ve said. Instead just attacks towards me at what I’d seen at my time over there.

Lus hired guys with high school diplomas. Talk about a talent pool. The best of the best.

When you come into an American forum and start talking about "most of the flows" that doesn't just mean the small number of people you worked with at PSA. You didn't even make it clear that you don't currently work at AA. Therefore, you don't have any idea what most of the flows are like. Maybe the PSA flows are bad, but they are definitely not most. The PSA guys in my class seemed normal.

Also, the thread is about stopping the flow immediately. Well if the flows are good right now then why would we need to stop it immediately? All the flows have to complete a probation year and if they are as bad as you say then they won't make it through anyway.

Since you don't work at AA, I'm not sure why you are here arguing about it. Whether or not AA keeps the flow programs in the future or not, I don't really care. The comments about people that have flowed are lazy or somehow below average are not true though. If it is in the future, then I'm sure AA will address it.

I’ve also flown with 2 guys at US Airways that were practicing medical doctors, maybe they can cancel out 2 of your high school diploma guys

I can't think of a time in pre merger history that PSA and Eagle were hiring from the same talent pool. PSA flows are PSA flows.

That being said, some real psychopaths have been hired off the street at AA. If the 6-9 year flow isn't good at sorting them out, neither is the 3 day interview process.

quality of flow candidates aside (which has been mentioned that flow airlines are the home of the deplorable with no other option for a major except to hold a golden ticket).... the flow is only going to continue to strengthen AA managements position to give AA pilots subpar contracts and treatment because such a giant percentage of pilots didnt actually earn a job at AA.

contract negotiations will likely go like this...

AA pilots:give us industry standard
AA management: youre lucky to be here, you'll get nothing

Sounds like you should hurry up and quit then! :)

Either that or "vote in this contract or we will shrink mainline and whipsaw you all back to the regionals"

Better hope that flowback language is bulletproof.

good point, that very well likely could happen also

The flip side of that coin (speaking only for envoy pilots) is that we put up with years of BS and low pay and now we want it all. I can't even imagine what a yes vote from me would look like.

Well based on this logic you can say almost the same thing about hiring MIL guys.
After all, what do they know about working in a unionized shop, with collective bargaining, labor vs management, etc.

They're just happy to be here and blindly follow orders from the top. I'm sure they'll take nothing.

Yea that doesn’t make any sense. What is to keep Spirit or wherever you work from threatening to furlough you and send you back to the regionals? Or what keeps United and Delta from threatening the same thing to their pilots? What does flow have anything to do with contract negotiations? Why would this be a unique problem at AA?

Not true
 

If you can’t get out of the regionals better look inward. Been in the USA less then three years, no degree, Airbus training starts in January. Possibly you would rather flow, and also have become comfortable?, not looking 100 percent? I was due to flow in three and been at my regional 2.3 years. Look hard and focus something will transpire if you really want it too!

Pilot X-quoting you because of the doctor comment, but aimed at entire thread, not you. I know you were addressing the less than flattering post from the other poster.

I've flown with a few guys with law degrees that couldn't fly all that well and would have been better in an office.

I'm one of those guys without a 4 year degree. Many of my friends here are in the same boat. I was on my way to one when I made the decision to quit and fly for a regional because Piedmont didn't require a 4 year degree at the time. Flying for Piedmont was my dream and I figured that they could not continue to grow and hire at that rate they were in the early '80's. I was correct. At times I wondered if it was the right decision, but looks like it worked out. Now there are a few areas of study that interest me-maybe after retirement, if I can pull the writing off. Not my strong suit.

All that said, my current position has allowed me to work with many new hires this last year. Most, whether from the military or flow(I haven't worked with the few non-military, non-flows we've hired) have been great. The flow guys usually have an easier time because they have the airline stuff down, but every military hire has worked their rear off to catch up.

There will be some bad apples from all barrels. Painting a picture that our flow pilots are losers that could not get hired elsewhere is false and unfair. Many have decided that, like it or not, AA has gone down the flow road and that if they want to fly here then that's the choice.

I've had two flow guys with attitudes and we had to have a chat. Thing is, I don't think the attitude was a product of the flow, it was their personality and it would have been there no matter what their background.

The last year has shown me that we have an amazingly talented pilot group. Often personalities get mistaken for being a poor pilot and we need to separate the two.

Very well said! Agree 100%

No, more like this: " we're not caving into terrible LTD language like the American boys did before us, and the profit sharing. No deal"
Doug Parker was wetting his pants for the last merger, a fact lost on the APA.
At least the regional flows all pretty much had better scheduling rules than the Native AA. The rescheduling at this airline is out of control.
I believe just the opposite will happen. The regional flows will start to steer the contracts away from the Legacy AA mindset. The mindset that voted profitsharing away, when the economy was set to take off. That was an unbelievably stupid move.

Just walk in there, look the manager in the eyes and shake his hand firmly. That's how I got my job and if you can't do it you're a lazy millennial

Completely disagree. Those of us that have been here since the 80's did our initial service as 727 F/Es, or right seat of F-28's, 737's, -9's 80's etc. Now flow guys do those years in regional jets, in both seats. That gives them a different perspective and they have seen good and bad of those seats(many have had better scheduling that we do). Most are willing to fight for a good contract.

Contract wise they are not the group of new hires you need to worry about.

I’m sure you don’t mean this the way it appears. Certainly at your time here you’ve flown with great folks - LCA even - that...are still here... I’m pretty sure a little soul searching isn’t their way out.



Could say you’re the perfect candidate for the flow. Could also say you’re the perfect candidate for an ULCC - someone that won’t get another type and then get the call from a legacy a short time later.


I’m very happy that you’re out of the clown show - no schadenfreude here friend - but “anywhere but here” just doesn’t work for some people.

This is ridiculous.

I personally didn’t apply at any ULCC. I much preferred my seniority and schedule at my regional to anything those companies offered. I suspect many at Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy feel the same way. Why go to Allegiant (or spirit or Jetblue) when you flow to American Airlines? To fly an Airbus? Big whoop.

I know two, one barely made it out of OE and the other didn’t finish ground school before AA and UAL picked them up. Who’s to say there isn’t another bucket from which they pull names being those employed by another Major?

And that’s the gamble. Are you confident you’ll get hired off the street from a LCC to AA-DL-UA before you would’ve flowed to AA? Is RJ pic better than airbus SIC, or vice versa? The pay at the LCC is certainly better. Hard choice to make for some.

Edit: also, this is a dumb thread, and we are all dumber for reading OPs post and the ensuing arguments, mine included.

👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

One list! One list!

This thread gave me cancer.

ignorance is bold...:rolleyes:

I nominate this thread for Major TOTD. Who gives a sh** if you were a flow, mil driver or OTS hire. Are you professional, safe, competent, strive to do your job well, uphold the pilot profession and generally not a sucky person? If so great!! I look forward to flying a trip with you....for the others who are bent about what an individuals backgorund is...go kick rocks.

As I said
 

Well if you didn’t apply to any low cost you are expecting to be called for a legacy and don’t really want to leave the regionals that bad. As far as the Airbus goes , I have over 3000 hours in a 737 flying all over Europe Middle East and North Africa. Do you really think when I moved here I wanted to go FO on a regional jet? Actually I didn’t mind maybe that’s why I have Airbus training coming up and you are complaining about not being hired! Why not wait for the flow, we all have our own reasons, for myself American isn’t the be all and end all. I personally don’t want to live out of a suit case the rest of my career.
Ps - you forgot to add southwest to the list of low cost carriers

I work at American, friend. Hired 3 years ago.

Awesome enjoy the suitcase, we are all different, and want different things. Enjoy your time at a great carrier!

That flowback language is non-existent at present.......it’s a 1 way flow

The 2000s called, they want their management negotiating strategy back.

Have you seen the retirement numbers lately?


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You’re going to Allegiant.