Jumpseat Battle Brewing
05-25-2021, 01:10 AM
#771
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,764
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Over 120 posts in the last 24 hours. Wow! This thread is hard to keep up with. And yes, I am piling another log on it.
05-25-2021, 05:46 AM
#772
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,132
Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8
From my perspective, using myidtravel isn't a problem; it's the industry norm and easy enough. The gripe is two-fold:
1) AAC carriers are forced to choose between a non-rev listing, which comes with higher cabin priority and no jumpseat priority, or a jumpseat listing which comes with the lowest cabin priority. Many of our pilots have been left behind on AAG flights because a passenger or higher-priority non-rev showed up last minute taking the last cabin seat, and an offline jumpseat has already checked in despite our pilots getting to the gate first. In other words, we have to gamble/guess which listing we should check-in to get on. This isn't how it should work.
.
1) AAC carriers are forced to choose between a non-rev listing, which comes with higher cabin priority and no jumpseat priority, or a jumpseat listing which comes with the lowest cabin priority. Many of our pilots have been left behind on AAG flights because a passenger or higher-priority non-rev showed up last minute taking the last cabin seat, and an offline jumpseat has already checked in despite our pilots getting to the gate first. In other words, we have to gamble/guess which listing we should check-in to get on. This isn't how it should work.
.
What do you list as for a non-rev vs a jumpseat?
That is an issue that shouldn't exist, even I'd agree with that. You should not have to choose one or the other, then get beat out for one or the other by another OAL who checked in after you. OAL is OAL, and it's supposed to be time of check-in.
05-25-2021, 06:44 AM
#773
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: Jumpseat
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Cujo665
It might help to explain that a bit more. AA/AAG lists D2J, it covers both non-rev and the JS.
What do you list as for a non-rev vs a jumpseat?
That is an issue that shouldn't exist, even I'd agree with that. You should not have to choose one or the other, then get beat out for one or the other by another OAL who checked in after you. OAL is OAL, and it's supposed to be time of check-in.
What do you list as for a non-rev vs a jumpseat?
That is an issue that shouldn't exist, even I'd agree with that. You should not have to choose one or the other, then get beat out for one or the other by another OAL who checked in after you. OAL is OAL, and it's supposed to be time of check-in.
05-25-2021, 03:23 PM
#774
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,132
Originally Posted by Duchess
We list AAC for non-rev. We list on MyTravelID for D6. While we can technically list for both, that is a no-no per the travel guide/gate agents. So if the flight starts getting close to full, or go oversold, we need to cancel the AAC listing, then list D6 (js), then check in with the gate agent. Its actually the reason I lost out on the js to a 9E driver after working an Eagle trip, and after giving an AAG pilot priority over a OAL on my go-home leg.
I think you’ve got a better shot getting the non-rev and JS listing combined than creating a new priority level above other OAL’s.
05-26-2021, 07:37 AM
#777
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Position: Guppy
Posts: 761
Originally Posted by Cujo665
That isn’t right. You should be able to list Non-Rev and have the J flag. I get the not listing twice, AA/AAG can’t do that either.
I think you’ve got a better shot getting the non-rev and JS listing combined than creating a new priority level above other OAL’s.
I think you’ve got a better shot getting the non-rev and JS listing combined than creating a new priority level above other OAL’s.
The next question is how would we implement such a change. If combine our non-rev and jumpseat listings, even if keeping the jumpseat listing as equivalent priority to OAL (which I wholeheartedly disagree with, but we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, apparently), we would need the ability to check-in this listing 24 hours prior for our non-rev benefits. Checking in 24 hours prior would get us a de-facto priority bump over OAL pilots for the jumpseat because they can only check-in one hour prior, so I'm not really sure what the difference would be, practically-speaking, between that and the AAC FDJ that we've been asking for.
I'll add that this doesn't really address the issue of equity that is and should be important to every pilot party to a jumpseat agreement. Based on your own criteria, AAG should not have priority over OAL on Republic flights because they don't fall into any of your "own-metal" or "parent/daughter companies." If Republic is OAL on AAG flights because of those (again, arbitrary) definitions, AAG doesn't get that status one-way only when it benefits them. AAG airlines are no less OAL to Republic based on ownership than the other way around.
For the record, I think that argument is asinine and I think it's ridiculous that we're in a situation now where AAG pilots are losing priority on any American Eagle flights, but that was the choice that was made by the APA. I hope we can come together and find a mutually-agreeable solution, but telling a group of pilots to just bend over and take it isn't a good start. Republic has offered numerous solutions, many at our own expense, that preserve the priority of AAG pilots on our American Eagle flights while acknowledging the importance of Republic pilots to the American brand vis-a-vis offline jumpseaters.
I again ask, what else are we supposed to do?
Originally Posted by dera
Seems crazy to list as AAC first for that elusive seat 28B, and losing a JS because of that listing.
Originally Posted by BattMartle
Especially since if there are open seats, they’ll hand them out to D6UJ’s.
05-26-2021, 08:22 AM
#778
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,729
Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8
For the record, I think that argument is asinine and I think it's ridiculous that we're in a situation now where AAG pilots are losing priority on any American Eagle flights, but that was the choice that was made by the APA.
Hook'em!
05-27-2021, 05:43 AM
#779
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,132
Originally Posted by Longhornmaniac8
I'm glad we agree on that. It's very cumbersome and really doesn't benefit anyone.
The next question is how would we implement such a change. If combine our non-rev and jumpseat listings, even if keeping the jumpseat listing as equivalent priority to OAL (which I wholeheartedly disagree with, but we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, apparently), we would need the ability to check-in this listing 24 hours prior for our non-rev benefits. Checking in 24 hours prior would get us a de-facto priority bump over OAL pilots for the jumpseat because they can only check-in one hour prior, so I'm not really sure what the difference would be, practically-speaking, between that and the AAC FDJ that we've been asking for.
I'll add that this doesn't really address the issue of equity that is and should be important to every pilot party to a jumpseat agreement. Based on your own criteria, AAG should not have priority over OAL on Republic flights because they don't fall into any of your "own-metal" or "parent/daughter companies." If Republic is OAL on AAG flights because of those (again, arbitrary) definitions, AAG doesn't get that status one-way only when it benefits them. AAG airlines are no less OAL to Republic based on ownership than the other way around.
For the record, I think that argument is asinine and I think it's ridiculous that we're in a situation now where AAG pilots are losing priority on any American Eagle flights, but that was the choice that was made by the APA. I hope we can come together and find a mutually-agreeable solution, but telling a group of pilots to just bend over and take it isn't a good start. Republic has offered numerous solutions, many at our own expense, that preserve the priority of AAG pilots on our American Eagle flights while acknowledging the importance of Republic pilots to the American brand vis-a-vis offline jumpseaters.
I again ask, what else are we supposed to do?
We think so, too. When 28B or 1/2W is your ticket home to your family, it's important.
It's not when there are enough seats in the cabin that it matters; it's when there aren't. Anyone who has non-revved knows how dynamic the situation can be right up until door closure. We can go from getting a seat in the back with our AAC priority over a D6 to losing out on everything in the blink of an eye simply because we were forced to choose which listing to go with.
The next question is how would we implement such a change. If combine our non-rev and jumpseat listings, even if keeping the jumpseat listing as equivalent priority to OAL (which I wholeheartedly disagree with, but we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this, apparently), we would need the ability to check-in this listing 24 hours prior for our non-rev benefits. Checking in 24 hours prior would get us a de-facto priority bump over OAL pilots for the jumpseat because they can only check-in one hour prior, so I'm not really sure what the difference would be, practically-speaking, between that and the AAC FDJ that we've been asking for.
I'll add that this doesn't really address the issue of equity that is and should be important to every pilot party to a jumpseat agreement. Based on your own criteria, AAG should not have priority over OAL on Republic flights because they don't fall into any of your "own-metal" or "parent/daughter companies." If Republic is OAL on AAG flights because of those (again, arbitrary) definitions, AAG doesn't get that status one-way only when it benefits them. AAG airlines are no less OAL to Republic based on ownership than the other way around.
For the record, I think that argument is asinine and I think it's ridiculous that we're in a situation now where AAG pilots are losing priority on any American Eagle flights, but that was the choice that was made by the APA. I hope we can come together and find a mutually-agreeable solution, but telling a group of pilots to just bend over and take it isn't a good start. Republic has offered numerous solutions, many at our own expense, that preserve the priority of AAG pilots on our American Eagle flights while acknowledging the importance of Republic pilots to the American brand vis-a-vis offline jumpseaters.
I again ask, what else are we supposed to do?
We think so, too. When 28B or 1/2W is your ticket home to your family, it's important.
It's not when there are enough seats in the cabin that it matters; it's when there aren't. Anyone who has non-revved knows how dynamic the situation can be right up until door closure. We can go from getting a seat in the back with our AAC priority over a D6 to losing out on everything in the blink of an eye simply because we were forced to choose which listing to go with.
your CPA flying is still AA flights. Allowing a contractor to do it, doesn't change the fact of who's flight it is. Today it's you, tomorrow it's PSA. You're a contractor working for AAG, period. You are not the same as AA or any of the sister companies.
You're still OAL trying to get higher priority than other OAL's.
How does that effect all the other jumpseat agreements if we go by your definition of reciprocal? They then will complain that you're getting special treatment, and they'd be right.
Now that your pilot group has done such a great job advertising this unfair treatment of OAL's by both DL and UA, it will be interesting to see how much longer you keep that special perk.
05-27-2021, 05:55 AM
#780
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,132
Originally Posted by biigD
I'm just a lowly line pilot (hell not even that - I'm on reserve!) and don't have any info on what's going on behind the scenes with the APA beyond the e-mail we got back in March. They've been silent on this issue since, and quite honestly I'm surprised we haven't heard more after you guys made the change to your FOM. I don't do the FB thing so I'm not sure what's happening over there, but even on our union forum there's not a lot of talk about it (the last post was March 22nd). It's entirely possible I'm out of touch with the mood of the pilot group, but it certainly doesn't seem like the rank and file at AA give much of a crap one way or the other. Perhaps the tail is wagging the dog - I dunno.
Hook'em!
Hook'em!
APA walked, it's over
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