Because we have incompetent union leadership.

Do you mean mediation because why would we agree to arbitration? If I left PSA for Delta I wouldn’t spend so much time being butthurt and posting about APA not agreeing to a staple, I would just move on and concentrate on Delta issues.

Negotiation Update
 

No, because raises are increases above inflation. Keeping up with inflation is breaking even, or a cost of living adjustment (COLA). Not keeping up with inflation is negotiating a pay cut. Raises would be inflation+. When inflation is flat, 3-5% would be a pretty good increase. When inflation is double digits, it’s not.


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Mediation should have already come and gone. I said arbitration for a reason. I’m not butthurt about anything, I’m happy where I’m at. But I was close to the situation that has unfolded and I have a unique perspective on it. Delta has issues but they basically pale in comparison to what’s happening at AA.

so I went to bls.gov and used their CPI Inflation calculator. I put in my pay rate on Jan 2019 in the calculator and then it generated what that would have to be in todays dollars…it was 17.5% higher. So we would have to get pay rates over 17.5% higher than our current rate to see a “raise”. Look I am all for getting as much as we can, but I just don’t see the company pushing across the table a 18/3/2 offer…maybe they will…but what I think would be smart is to get as much as we can along with great QOL and language and have a snap up provision with no cap. Also need to limit this contract to like 3years(plus raises for every year after so they are forced to negotiate), every month that goes by we are just falling father behind. It’s the time value of money that pilots(unions in general) don’t understand. We should have signed the supposed deal back in 2019 and we would be back negotiating again now instead of still negotiating. You think we are going to be “made whole” for the last 3 years? We are not, that is money lost and gone…but I am perfectly fine with them saying no to the current offer, it is a joke of an offer. What is my personal YES vote threshold? I don’t know bc it’s not just payrates I am concerned with. Most US companies give “raises” in the 3% range with a lot of experts expecting this to go to an avg of 4% or maybe even 5-7%. Notice how I put “raises” in quotes, it’s bc it has nothing to do with inflation, it is simply a percentage that is currently higher than one’s current salary. But inflation is at historic highs right now so everyone wants to beat the inflation drum but historically “raises” were never calculated as current salary + inflation + increase. It was and is, simply, current salary + increase.

Negotiation Update
 

If you’re ok with making less money than you did a few years ago and calling it good, then I guess that’s ok. Time value of money is very real and applies to the last few years, but it also applies when setting the bar too low for not just this contract, but the starting point for the next one. And for every one after that. Compounded for the rest of your career. Accept nothing less than full retro, signing bonus equal to that/being made whole. That is the only thing that will keep from eroding your buying power and standard of living. Maybe the company won’t push 18/3/2 across the table (which is probably too low in subsequent years anyway), but that means the pilots must do it. And if it doesn’t meet the acceptable threshold of the membership, it gets shot down and doesn’t pass.

Completely agree that the rates are not everything, and QOL improvements are just if not more important. Also in the short duration, snap-up with no cap, etc. We just can’t allow managements to get pilots to accept pay cuts in this environment. You know they will be getting inflation+ when they negotiate their pay. They’d be stupid not to.


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Show me on the doll where AAG touched you. For a DAL guy now you have a lot of bitterness towards AA. Should just move on and enjoy your double-breasted jacket and hat!

Edit: Chris not Dunkin

I can show you on the doll where AAG is touching 14,000 APA pilots. Brought to you in part by your representation, APA not being willing to read the tea leaves for what they are and work towards bringing your regional feed in house. APA is focused on the small battles and not the big war waging on their doorstep, to put it colloquially. More than any other airline American is dependent on regional feed.

Bringing your flying in-house would not only benefit APA, but the regional airlines who’s pilots fly your passengers, and the rest of the industry to boot. Instead you’re dithering with your management over raises that won’t even match inflation and certainly still leave the majority of your pilots paid less than regional pilots.

Yeah, it’s not APA’s job to be the benefactor for your regional pilot charity. Maybe you should take up the causw yourself.

If i go from $182 to $200 i wont be making less money...thats my point. You are talking about purchasing power which is different. I agree that pay raises need to take into account broad economic conditions some but to beat a drum and say inflation + I just don't think is realistic...You honestly think that if we hold the line till we get to arbitration that an arbitrator is going to give us FULL RETRO?? Or going to give us Inflation from 2019 +3%??? Honestly?! Thats not happening, its just not..I dont like our chances...thats my opinion, and some will have a different argument/opinion which is cool....but I feel like we are wasting a lot of time and negotiating capital on payrates...honestly I don't think AA can afford to fall too far behind in payrates in this environment...but hey I am just a gear puller so I don't really know $***.
...for what its worth i think we are working towards a common goal obviously.