Negotiation Update
 

That's a big...NO!

An increase of 10% at DOS, 5% at DOS + 1, and 3% at the amendable date,

Retro pay for six months at 6%, and

But we have the snap up! Lol. (Fine print the snap up will be capped at 2.5%). Significant gain by other carriers, another undefined contract term, will be arbitrated. How is our arbitration record? I could see UAL eclipsing our rates by 15% and the company arguing that’s not “significant.” Then we spend 5 years running that through the arbitration process.

The negotiating updates keep getting worse

Town Hall mentioned that UA has 15% DOS on the table. Three other carriers have 17/18/20% as per Paul (PHL Chair).

6% retro for 6 months is a joke. WO pilots are getting $40K annual retention bonuses.

Still leaves the vast majority of your pilots making less than regional pilots.

Didn't see anything for schedule flexibility, fixes for first year pilots, and the pay the company is offering is very disappointing. Something that a Union with a large national presence and vast resources could help out on.

Not "vest" but some. Same can be said about our WO and DA, UA, SWA, LCC, and ULCC.

You are correct on schedule flexibility. Who gives a **** about first year pilots, I’m serious. Lastly, what is not disappointing for a pay raise? Define it. 18% is not bad. After 2 years, a NB CA would nearly make what our WB CA make today at the 12 year pay mark.

The post triggered you so much you felt the need to make your very first post about it? lol, okay dude. The issues do not only effect first year pilots. Delayed 401K contributions will reverberate for the rest of your career. The longer your career, the more severe it will impact you. The first year pilot today will lose more than $100,000 30 years from now. Snapping seniority pay raises back to DOH instead of training date will positively impact the majority of the pilot group. Your last sentence is what AA management will hope is the way most of the pilot group will see it, then laugh all the way to the bank when they collect their yearly bonuses.

Define acceptable pay raise, and justify it.

Wow, showing a bit of your character there. Anyway, after 2 years your NB CA would make nearly what your NB CA makes now. Inflation.


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The pay raise you are in favor of does not even keep up with inflation. Justify that. Actually never-mind, your posts are so idiotic it is obvious you are a two post troll.

wow is all I can say.

Don't give a crap about anyone but yourself it appears.

Are you one of our new check airman that took a job everyone told you not to take?

Ahhh, the inflation argument. Ok, let’s dig in. With the current movement, you can hold NB CA in under three years. So let’s focus there as the incentives in place push the pilot group that direction. In a 10/5/3 scenario, a NB CA at 7 years (3 year upgrade, roughly 3 year raise period) would make roughly 354K at 80 hours/mo. Inflation only affects your cost bucket. Housing, transportation, groceries. What is that cost bucket compared to your salary? Housing for the vast part of a pilot group is stable, the other costs went up. However, your salary going up from 275K to 354K eclipses your costs by thousands of dollars. Let’s debate with facts, the argument that it doesn’t keep up with inflation is dumb and mathematically illiterate.

Some of us would like to be compensated commensurately as NB FOs. You sound like a management shill. Inflation affecting only a “cost bucket” is a weak argument. Everything costs something, and right now all costs are going up. If wages don’t track, the compensation is relatively less. That’s pretty easy math, actually.

ahhh, the cost bucket argument. lol, what a dunce. Don't you have a shuttle to catch soon from the Candlewood to the training center for Check Airman training?

I would like to see 15% DOS, 5%, 5%. Not DOS + 1 but I'm Jan 1st. I would also like to see continues pay increase of min 3% annually after CBA expires... indefinite. Three years without a raise, full retro!

As far as NB FO you want to be compensated, you will be at the exact same percentage, but starting at a rate about 100K less per annum. It still keeps pace with inflation, because…math.

Yes! I would like to see the same.

Except it doesn’t, and without any meaningful QoL improvements. Current update from NC is a total loser.

Say what??? Current 7 year pay is $268. Under the new CBA at 80 hours pay will end up being...

Year 7 $294 per hour ($282K)
Year 8 $312 per hour ($300K)
Year 9 $323 per hour ($310K)

401k will increase the salaries by $45K, $48K, $50K.
Problem is we haven't had a raise in 3 years.

Are you surprised? Some of them are busy picking up premium trips.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. THIS. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I’ll take 10 + 5 + 5,……. +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3, +3,……. Well, you get the point.

Spell it out. Don’t just *****. What is not meaningful about the proposed AIP QOL improvements? You want mo money? Ok. How much?

Yes, I included the 401K into the total amount, because that is what will happen.

Yawn. This forum is for generalizations. Union reps are *allegedly* for spelling out specific desires in the hopes the union goes that direction. Go back to your management overlords, shill.

If you've been at the top of the NB scale since 2019 you didn't get a raise for 3 years. NW 12 year CA should be making $309 per hours (3/3/3) as of today... that's $5 less then what the top NB will be making in 3 years under the current proposal (10/5/3). We need to bring the rates up to what they should have been then consider pay increase.

You mean whining, not generalizations. Why not get specific? Why not spell out what is a “good deal” instead of incipient complaining?

Because you’re a troll.

Awesome, that is what I’m talking about. Anchor this discussion to goals.

When it comes to pay...

15% DOS, Jan 5%, Jan 5%, Jan 3% indefinite after CBA expires

Full retro 9% (3% per year without CBA)

International override 5% of your hourly rate.

Housing in major metro areas (like where we have pilot bases) is through the roof. Rents are up 30% in many cities and the cost of owning is the highest in the history of our country, adjusted for inflation. Interest rates are on the rise too so it’s only going to get more expensive. And wait til your heating bill roles in this winter. These expenses alone can not be over stated. Forget about the buying power you had in 2019 vs today, we’re also trying to negotiate a RAISE here in case you forgot! 10/5/3 doesn’t even come close to keeping up with inflation let alone securing an actual raise.

Well done. That’s what is informative.

I know it isn’t what you want to hear, but it actually is a raise. I’m trying to ground the debate in facts. Bring it. I hope to be wrong, but I absolutely will not let bs math fly. Regarding housing costs, yes they have gone up, but rent from $2,500 to $3,500 per month does not make the point you think it does (12K in cost v 34K raise before 401K for a 5 year FO).

This “raise” (which actually isn’t even keeping up with the equivalent purchasing power your dollar held in 2019) would STILL not allow your narrowbody Captains to make more than regional airline Captains right now. It’s absurd that you’re even entertaining it.

So by your “solid math” you think 1/3 of a raise immediately vanishing for housing before you factor in any other increased costs is a substantial increase in compensation?

Management shill. Management shill. You created this account literally to troll people and tell them they’re not worth being compensated for their work.

Spell it out, how is a 18% raise not keeping up with 2018 purchasing power?

Okay let’s look at your example here. What happened to being grounded in math and facts? You’re conveniently leaving out the fact that this 34K raise is PRE TAX. Really only about 24K raise. So that leaves about 12K after your 12K rent increase for the rest of the year. Again look at gas prices, utilities, groceries. And let’s say you have a family of four. Again where’s the actual raise?

If my pay rate goes from $268 to $324 in roughly 18 months, you are saying that doesn’t keep up with inflation? I don’t see it. A 56K raise in pure pay rates outpaces your costs to the point it is not a raise? Ok, then what does it take? What is the number? And is it grounded in reality?

You’re ignoring the three years it didn’t go up and the 20% current inflation because a) you’re a troll, b ) you’re a management shill, and c) you can’t actually do math.