Is it grounded in reality that a 50-76 seat RJ pilot is making 500K a year curtesy of AA? Is it grounded in reality that on top of that pay they’re getting 150k bonus to accept a flow to mainline? And that doesn’t even include all the other bonuses they get during their time at Eagle. All that money comes from the same coffers that pay us.

With all that in mind, how can you argue that 10/5/3, with six months of retro at 6% is something we should even consider voting for?

I hope to be disproven, but to say a 18% raise doesn’t keep pace with inflation is moronic.

We both know we are going to shelter 20,500K in our 401K with about a 25% effective tax rate (Federal only). I’m saying give me the number? We know taxes take a healthy bite, but that is the same for 4/3/3 or 15/5/5.

Snake1234 also believed that inflation was only "transitory" because that is what the Biden administration told him to think.

I really don’t give a rats ass about a carve out for the regionals. I just don’t. They have a cost structure and pilot supply they are trying to manage. I’m competing against the 63 y/o in the left seat at AA not Envoy.

Agree!! It's complete BS our WO are getting $150K im bonuses while we get 6% retro for 6 months. I say full retro back to when JCBA expired.. which would still be less then $150K

You have yet to offer anything substantive. If you want to whine call it a win go ahead, but so far, your insights are lacking any actual rigor or persuasiveness.

Exists in an alternate reality for sure.

20/5/5, but remember that’s just the pay rates. The rest of the sections would need to be thoroughly scrutinized before I would vote yes. The Devil is in the details, and if other sections contain little gems like the holiday pay LOA (hours flown), it’s an easy no vote for me.

The sad part is that when ALPA National and the WO MEC Chairmen met with Ferguson and Patrick this was pointed out as a possible outcome of not working with them on a plan to give WO pilots seniority numbers and eventually absorb the regional flying.

2 things fixed the problems with regional attrition. One was seniority, the other was pay. Absorbing the WOs pilots (or maybe just the Captains) would have increased APAs bargaining power and created a solution where American’s money could be spent more on APA pilots. But it was bad timing being an APA election year etc. All the same… ALPA National and the WO MECs warned APA that this was a possible outcome and here we are. The industry pay is likely to remain upside down for a couple years because APA didn’t want to entertain talk of seniority numbers to the unwashed regional pilots flying their passengers.

Uh... you're the mathematically illiterate one here. Please don't ever negotiate for anybody.

It’s probably because they’re at a regional, and not at American -the purview of APA.

If you want to do “your mom” we can. If you have a concrete example, that’s better.

Management is grossly over estimating their position here. The “that’s the way we always did it” crowd is retiring to the tune 800+/year. You know who’s replacing them? That’s right, the guys and gals that are used to getting triple pay and a 150K bonus for accepting a job they didn’t even have to interview for. What do you think their expectations for a TA will be? 10/5/3? Laughable. These guys don’t get out of bed for less the 2x premium and a nice fat bonus. The longer this drags out, the more flows come to mainline, and the higher inflation gets. It’s not going to get cheaper for AA. Quite the contrary. I say file for mediation and let the lengthy multi-year process begin.

Astute observation. Pilots at ALL 3 legacies should now be fully aware of the importance of absorbing their regional feed and having all of that flying done on a single seniority list. The direct result for APA would have been the $1.75B being spent on just the 3 AA WOs being spread across all of APA. The indirect result would be increased bargaining power. Either way it’s win win for APA pilots current and future. Literally 0 downside.

But hey, keep viewing the industry through whatever lease you and APA are viewing it through. Seems to be working out really well.

That would be more accurate than the stuff you're spewing. So let's do that.

I can see you. I acknowledge you. Now that’s out of the way, I beg you, with tears in my eyes, to offer anything substantive to this discussion.

I already have, more than you. Company stooge

are you saying that APA was approached by AA to staple all 3 wholly owned to our list?

And there it is, the “your mom response”. Excellent. Bravo.

No. That is not what I am saying.

Yeah, no. They didn’t get hired by the airline that APA represents pilots for.

Are you saying that your trolling with made up statistics is substantive? Damn, your fantasy world keeps getting wilder.

If you have numbers to refute my general thrust then lay it out. Otherwise, you can hold hands with Sus and play make-believe grievance.

But good enough to fly your passengers no? You obviously have no clue what’s going on industry-wide and how that affects the legacies, but most acutely American Airlines.

Delta isn’t as reliant on its regional feed as both UAL and AAL are. UAL has a plan to reduce its regional footprint with mainline narrowbodies. AA is… Increasing its regional partners, bringing back 50 seat outdated CRJ200s that passengers loathe, and announcing to its pilots that it will be reevaluating its widebody international footprint.

Essentially doubling down on everything that YOU as an APA pilot should be worried about insourcing your own flying for. Doubling down on everything that you as an APA pilot should be interested in increasing the size of your labor union and gaining leverage for.

Your union leadership is a reflection of your pilot group. I honestly hope you don’t become ALPA. You’re a toxic pilot group with a toxic labor organization to represent you. Go on doing you and getting the same results. Contract after contract.

I still don’t understand what you’re trying to say? Please explain it like in easy terms. So simple that a guy who just left psa a few months ago could understand.

It’s not APA’s job to solve AAL’s problems for them. If AAL had brought any kind of proposal that was reflective of what you’re talking about, this might be a valid discussion. But it isn’t, so get hired normally and stop *****ing about “toxicity” that’s just reality.

I suggest you look at some inflation tables. Better yet, read the PHL domicile blast from last month.

As of last month, we need an immediate 17.7% raise to get back to where we were Jan 1 2019. Going forward these numbers get a lot bigger fast. August CPI just came out a few days ago and it's still at 8.3%

I've heard lots of intelligent people make arguments that the official CPI figures under represent the inflation problem, but you might be the first to try (poorly) to argue the opposite.

Also, stop adding in longevity and equipment raises to your "math". You get those wether we get a new contract or not.

Oh really? You’re somehow implying that Delta and United would be open to merging their regional feed into their own list (if they were wholly owned)? Unless it were a pure staple job, then I can guarantee you that they would absolute NOT agree to even entertain that idea.

This idea that somehow AA has pilots who as human beings are somehow DIFFERENT than the pilots at UA and DL is laughable and ridiculous.

Should we probably merge their operation into our own? Yes. Absolutely.

Anything beyond a pure staple and fences is a non starter, as it would be at UA and DL. To think otherwise is pure fantasy.

So with that said, how is our group more “toxic” than either of those two?

I am at a legacy. It isn’t American. But I spent the better part of a decade flying AA passengers and I have a more intimate knowledge of the situation than most.

The problem just happens to be AAL’s problem. But it could have been extremely beneficial and lucrative for APA to work towards solving. But hey, moot point. You don’t get it and nothing I say to the contrary is going to convince you. Enjoy the rest of your career.

A staple is what it would be. And of course fences would be a part of that conversation.

And it’s obvious what United is doing. They’re just shrinking their regionals and growing the mainline. Even their CEO has been very open about their plans. Delta has mostly already done that. I won’t speak to Delta’s discussion with Endeavor or DALPA because it’s not my place to.

So just to be clear, this Snake1234 character’s only goal here is to encourage negotiating in public and to divide pilots over specific numbers. If he’s not management, he probably should be.
If you can’t read their arguments without becoming angry or perplexed by how someone’s brain could work that way, they’re probably a troll. Bravo to those that figured it out before I did.


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I understand your idea, but also understand it’s just like your opinion man and also not a good idea so no not going to agree with it. Keep being angry about working for Eagle and not getting hired by absorption.

I could have flowed. I chose not to. I’m not angry. Just flabbergasted by your pilot group and your union. Can you articulate for me and anyone else following along why absorbing the regional flying and pilots into mainline is not a good idea?

Don’t mean no disrespect or anything but you guys deserve better. Sorry to see this.

keep us posted on the next picketing event. I’ll be there.


From a Delta guy.

Lol this guy is either a troll, management shill, or has no self worth as a professional at AA since literally every other peer has a compensation package that's a minimum of 5% or more better than ours. Pretty sad.

Yeah, this is what those at your former employer were hoping for. But about a year ago. Instead, middle management at the regional was pretending like they held all the cards...

Now AAG is paying the $$$$ price, and APA pilots are losing out.

BUT...There is one big reason AA does not want to staple. How will AA hire off the street, if there are suddenly another 4000+ pilots (ENY,PDT,PSA) at the bottom of their seniority list overnight?

I cannot believe people like this exist at this airline. It's embarrassing.

Fortunately, I'm sure he's on his way out. The next few years we can rid ourselves of guys like this.

Not soon enough.

Jeez, guys. Clearly he’s management of some sort, or involved with the company’s negotiating team.
I know no line pilot who thinks like this person.