Kahului - Hard Landing
02-08-2024, 06:07 AM
#91
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 71
Of course use the speed brakes when you need them, but it is true that they are often over used.
I think the biggest fault for a messed up managed descent is inaccurate wind data, which compromises the calculated idle path descent.
I think the biggest fault for a messed up managed descent is inaccurate wind data, which compromises the calculated idle path descent.
02-08-2024, 07:33 AM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 177
So much this. I’ve never understood why so many pilots are so anti-speed brake. It was way worse in the military than at AA, but still. Bizarre.
I found it hilarious when some moron refused to touch the speed brakes but then proceeded to extend flaps for no reason and flew straight and level at or above clean min maneuver speed. Just wanted to burn more fuel, I guess? Seemed to be the same types who shut down the APU with/without inadequate PCA on a 55 minute turn in August in DFW/MIA/PHX/etc. Clueless.
I found it hilarious when some moron refused to touch the speed brakes but then proceeded to extend flaps for no reason and flew straight and level at or above clean min maneuver speed. Just wanted to burn more fuel, I guess? Seemed to be the same types who shut down the APU with/without inadequate PCA on a 55 minute turn in August in DFW/MIA/PHX/etc. Clueless.
Those days are long gone. Aircraft are more aerodynamic, high bypass engines produce more power at idle thrust than old JT-8s did, and the airspace is managed for the convenience of ATC (not you).
You can be high, slow, and configured - you can be low, fast, and clean...don't be high, fast and clean unless you want to be in the headlines. Use boards when you need them. In today's environment there are times when ATC may put you in a position where you need boards AND gear to get to where you need to be.
Also, when your FMS loads your descent winds, you can tweak those numbers up +10 knots if it is a tailwind.
Last edited by GhettoJet; 02-08-2024 at 07:44 AM.
02-08-2024, 07:52 AM
#94
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Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 531
Im not super old school, nor brand new - the first approach I learned was an NDB - but even with a VNAV path, I'm doing the 3 or 4:1 math in my head and watching the V/S required on the FMS - as well as using some of the usual FMS trickery to get a more conservative path.
02-08-2024, 08:15 AM
#95
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,294
Okay I'll play... In the scenario depicted you have 40 miles (10 minutes @ 240 knots GS) to lose 5,000 feet? That's 500 fpm...I can't imagine 1) why you'd descend that far out, or 2) why you'd remotely consider using boards in this situation. Unless I'm completely misreading the question...
02-08-2024, 09:08 AM
#96
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,139
02-08-2024, 09:30 AM
#97
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Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: Da Bus, Left
Posts: 1,522
02-08-2024, 12:46 PM
#98
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Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 425
Once upon a time, before SIDs, before STARs, before jet powered regional aircraft, when our aircraft weren't nearly as slippery as they are today, when a competent center controller would give you radar vectors across the country on a red eye that you would try to manage your descent to landing with a 3 to 1 mental calculator without using speedbrakes. Throttles converted fuel into potential energy at altitude, and you'd try not to waste that potential energy with boards on the way down in an ultra competitive industry with bankruptcies, layoffs, and mergers.
Those days are long gone. Aircraft are more aerodynamic, high bypass engines produce more power at idle thrust than old JT-8s did, and the airspace is managed for the convenience of ATC (not you).
You can be high, slow, and configured - you can be low, fast, and clean...don't be high, fast and clean unless you want to be in the headlines. Use boards when you need them. In today's environment there are times when ATC may put you in a position where you need boards AND gear to get to where you need to be.
Also, when your FMS loads your descent winds, you can tweak those numbers up +10 knots if it is a tailwind.
Those days are long gone. Aircraft are more aerodynamic, high bypass engines produce more power at idle thrust than old JT-8s did, and the airspace is managed for the convenience of ATC (not you).
You can be high, slow, and configured - you can be low, fast, and clean...don't be high, fast and clean unless you want to be in the headlines. Use boards when you need them. In today's environment there are times when ATC may put you in a position where you need boards AND gear to get to where you need to be.
Also, when your FMS loads your descent winds, you can tweak those numbers up +10 knots if it is a tailwind.
and now that age 67 might not happen. Get out of my seat old man.
02-08-2024, 09:26 PM
#100
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,294
Any verification of "200 hrs of IOE"? United guys saying it was the FO's first landing in then airplane. Brand new CKA with 1,357 total PIC...not in type....total PIC.
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