R57 relay

No doubt about that!

teddyballgame

CaptainBigWood

Delta got it right and motivated pilots with money. DP and the UCC is not willing to do the same. If you have low expectations of DP you will never be disappointed in the outcome.

R57 relay

Could it be that you feel that way because your group had a favorable outcome in the Nicolau arbitration? I don't mean that with contempt. I think you said that you were a late '80s hire at AWA. If so I think you were in the west group that got screwed by Nicolau's absurd(IMHO of course) widebody protection scheme. But, the group dynamic does come into play. I've been in the group that felt screwed in two mergers, and it has a big affect on morale and operations.

That said, I think arbitration will have a place in SLIs because of the points you raise. When I'm talking about a prenup I don't mean one where one side has the hammer over another. I'm talking about agreeing beforehand how things will be handled and then giving both sides a vote on it. That way, all pilots are party to it. I've heard over and over again that the reason the east is held in contempt is that we agreed to the rules and then reneged. We didn't agree to anything, we were told how it would happen but a very arrogant union. "We know better than you, just go along!" That didn't work too well, did it? I thought the one arbitrator was a bad idea and didn't like the changes to ALPA merger policy in the '90s. I expressed my opinions just to receive another pat on the head.

I haven't read MB in awhile and can't remember if it specifies how the whole process would work. I think there are several things that could make the process better, like the changes ALPA made to their merger policy after our disaster. Like a panel of arbitrators instead of one. I've suggested to our president that we include language that says the merger committees have free rein in the negotiation phase and that any proposal forwarded would not be used against the other side in arbitration. During our negotiations the east had a Canadian company that came up with an innovative solution. It was never passed because everyone felt that it was inevitable that we would end up in arbitration. Since that scheme was less favorable to the east than LOS, it was felt that if we proposed it the west would use it against us. Everyone wants to start from a position of strength in case the arbitrator splits the baby. If that fear is removed then maybe we could actually negotiate a list. The massive attrition that will come with this merger can sooth a lot of wounds, if it unevenly distributed with a windfall.

AA's Chp 11 is a whole different animal than the ones you and I went through. I wouldn't think that would affect a SLI much, it just gives most of the leverage to the UCC. Horton is trying to use the labor discord here to bolster his plan. If the APA and USAPA can come up with a plan to avoid our situation then that takes Horton's argument away.

Wiskey Driver

I wish someone could point out this favorable illusion too me, I really want to see it!

I got mixed in with a people on the east list that were in the same position on their list that I was on mine. What they want to do is use DOH to go from jr res first officers to mid level line holding captains and they have the nerve to feel that this is fair!!! A merger should NEVER produce that ever!! SO PLEASE SHOW ME WHERE THIS FAVORABLE OUTCOME VIA THE AWARD IS CAUSE i JUST DONT SEE IT...

WD at AWA

R57 relay

Then you just don't want to see it. If you are in the bottom 4-50% of the AWA list and would like to PM me your P# I will show you but it serves no purpose to continue this on here.

R57 relay

Oops, that should have been if it is NOT unevenly distributed with a windfall. Sorry. Can't edit it anymore.

cactiboss

Are you going to compare to date of merger? Or are you going to go by today after you forced separate ops resulting on the west going from 1800 pilots down to 1374? I was a 757 captain in may of 2005 and I lost my captain seat in 2008. So you going to use my 757 captain position or my downgraded 320 Fo position? Btw on the Nicolau I would get my seat back, the same place I was when we merged.

Wiskey Driver

Ok let me see if I get this right. In your opinion a person who on their list is a jr res first officer should via a merger go to mid level line holding captain, is that about right???? Ok this is called SUPER SENIORITY! Its gaining something that you otherwise would not get but for a merger.

I am in the same position MINUS a few percentage points in the nic list that I am on the AWA list. So you see my misinformed friend I see and understand just perfect, I am not greed a hell as some people are!!

WD at AWA

R57 relay

Nope, wrong assumption. But, I think I pegged you correctly. No PM from you, you don't want to learn. Are you really cacti? You write like him.

Now. Any thoughts on Crandalls video or ideas for a US/AA SLI?