AOL update
01-11-2014 | 06:34 AM
#2411
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
No I thought the Kirby proposal was a joke. I would have tried my best to throw out everyone in charge at USAPA. Their goal was never to reach achieve a decent CBA. They were only interested in delay tactics and evading prior obligations.
To be honest I hope the new AA never sees a single AWA or USAIR former rep in any position at APA. I think historically the East and West have been weak at the negotiating table. USAir never did any of the hard pulling, instead they went for parity letting UAL, DAL, and AA fight for any improvements. We all know AWA was always near the bottom of the barrel in terms of pay. They had their limitations as a carrier but too often the mantra was we will get them next time.
Hopefully APA still has some fight left in them. Doug Parker is a Lorenzo with a smile. He's going to be a worthy adversary.
To be honest I hope the new AA never sees a single AWA or USAIR former rep in any position at APA. I think historically the East and West have been weak at the negotiating table. USAir never did any of the hard pulling, instead they went for parity letting UAL, DAL, and AA fight for any improvements. We all know AWA was always near the bottom of the barrel in terms of pay. They had their limitations as a carrier but too often the mantra was we will get them next time.
Hopefully APA still has some fight left in them. Doug Parker is a Lorenzo with a smile. He's going to be a worthy adversary.
01-11-2014 | 07:30 AM
#2412
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Likes: 0
Send yo' money to Martay, Furgay, and Koontay..... victory is imminent... its just around the corner. Really. Promise. Promise. Promise.
Money, money, money... send it now!!
Please be advised we are in the Riviera conducting important strategy and may not return your calls for several days. The more money you send the faster we will get your message.
Cheers!
Donate TODAY!
Money, money, money... send it now!!
Please be advised we are in the Riviera conducting important strategy and may not return your calls for several days. The more money you send the faster we will get your message.
Cheers!
Donate TODAY!
01-11-2014 | 07:52 AM
#2413
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 0
From: A320 Capt
AWA, yeah, I agree with you.
01-11-2014 | 02:54 PM
#2414
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
That said, he is correct regarding Parker. "Hopefully APA still has some fight left in them. Doug Parker is a Lorenzo with a smile.''
01-13-2014 | 11:57 AM
#2415
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
01-13-2014 | 05:39 PM
#2416
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Likes: 0
Usapa West reps update
Dear Phoenix Pilots,
It’s been an interesting weekend to be sure. This coming week your Phoenix base representatives will be meeting in DFW on Wednesday to have a joint meeting with both APA & USAPA. After that, the BPR will have its own meeting at the hotel we are staying in on Thursday morning. As the announcement says, it is likely this BPR meeting will be “closed.” If you care to stop by, we will be at the Arlington Hilton. As details emerge from this meeting, we will share them with you.
As you know, Judge Silver made her ruling this past Friday. You can read the order HERE, or in the Addington II section of the USAPA Legal Library. If you have not read the ruling in its entirety, we strongly urge you to do so. After we read the ruling, we needed to check our dictionary to fully understand at least one of the descriptive terms used by Judge Silver. Here’s the one we looked up:
Pyrrhic victory – Here it is used in a sentence: “USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory.” This is the definition of “pyrrhic victory” from Wikipedia: A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll (or cost) negates any sense of achievement or profit.
Judge Silver said the following about Pat Szmanski’s efforts in the court room as well:
Pat Szymanski, counsel for USAPA, was the driving force behind the original provision as well as Paragraph 10(h). (Transcript at 86-88). Mr. Szymanksi did not sit for a deposition nor did he testify at trial. But inappropriately during the trial, from the well of the courtroom, Mr. Szymanski tried to offer testimony about why USAPA proposed these provisions. The Court refused to allow Mr. Szymanski to offer unsworn statements about his motivations and invited him to take the stand, testify under oath, and be subject to cross-examination. He declined.2
2 Mr. Szymanski’s actions on this point have been troubling. Pursuant to Arizona….. Mr. Szymanski likely should have withdrawn from this case.
Judge Silver said this about USAPA:
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative.
Please be assured that your Phoenix representatives are doing everything within their power to protect the seniority rights of the former America West Pilots as delivered in the agreed upon arbitration process that took place over 7 years ago. As Judge Silver said, “During the course of this case, USAPA employed almost every conceivable delaying tactic.” If you’ve been following our saga, you know that to be a very true statement.
John, Roger & Dave
It’s been an interesting weekend to be sure. This coming week your Phoenix base representatives will be meeting in DFW on Wednesday to have a joint meeting with both APA & USAPA. After that, the BPR will have its own meeting at the hotel we are staying in on Thursday morning. As the announcement says, it is likely this BPR meeting will be “closed.” If you care to stop by, we will be at the Arlington Hilton. As details emerge from this meeting, we will share them with you.
As you know, Judge Silver made her ruling this past Friday. You can read the order HERE, or in the Addington II section of the USAPA Legal Library. If you have not read the ruling in its entirety, we strongly urge you to do so. After we read the ruling, we needed to check our dictionary to fully understand at least one of the descriptive terms used by Judge Silver. Here’s the one we looked up:
Pyrrhic victory – Here it is used in a sentence: “USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory.” This is the definition of “pyrrhic victory” from Wikipedia: A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll (or cost) negates any sense of achievement or profit.
Judge Silver said the following about Pat Szmanski’s efforts in the court room as well:
Pat Szymanski, counsel for USAPA, was the driving force behind the original provision as well as Paragraph 10(h). (Transcript at 86-88). Mr. Szymanksi did not sit for a deposition nor did he testify at trial. But inappropriately during the trial, from the well of the courtroom, Mr. Szymanski tried to offer testimony about why USAPA proposed these provisions. The Court refused to allow Mr. Szymanski to offer unsworn statements about his motivations and invited him to take the stand, testify under oath, and be subject to cross-examination. He declined.2
2 Mr. Szymanski’s actions on this point have been troubling. Pursuant to Arizona….. Mr. Szymanski likely should have withdrawn from this case.
Judge Silver said this about USAPA:
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative.
Please be assured that your Phoenix representatives are doing everything within their power to protect the seniority rights of the former America West Pilots as delivered in the agreed upon arbitration process that took place over 7 years ago. As Judge Silver said, “During the course of this case, USAPA employed almost every conceivable delaying tactic.” If you’ve been following our saga, you know that to be a very true statement.
John, Roger & Dave
01-13-2014 | 06:14 PM
#2417
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Dear Phoenix Pilots,
It’s been an interesting weekend to be sure. This coming week your Phoenix base representatives will be meeting in DFW on Wednesday to have a joint meeting with both APA & USAPA. After that, the BPR will have its own meeting at the hotel we are staying in on Thursday morning. As the announcement says, it is likely this BPR meeting will be “closed.” If you care to stop by, we will be at the Arlington Hilton. As details emerge from this meeting, we will share them with you.
As you know, Judge Silver made her ruling this past Friday. You can read the order HERE, or in the Addington II section of the USAPA Legal Library. If you have not read the ruling in its entirety, we strongly urge you to do so. After we read the ruling, we needed to check our dictionary to fully understand at least one of the descriptive terms used by Judge Silver. Here’s the one we looked up:
Pyrrhic victory – Here it is used in a sentence: “USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory.” This is the definition of “pyrrhic victory” from Wikipedia: A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll (or cost) negates any sense of achievement or profit.
Judge Silver said the following about Pat Szmanski’s efforts in the court room as well:
Pat Szymanski, counsel for USAPA, was the driving force behind the original provision as well as Paragraph 10(h). (Transcript at 86-88). Mr. Szymanksi did not sit for a deposition nor did he testify at trial. But inappropriately during the trial, from the well of the courtroom, Mr. Szymanski tried to offer testimony about why USAPA proposed these provisions. The Court refused to allow Mr. Szymanski to offer unsworn statements about his motivations and invited him to take the stand, testify under oath, and be subject to cross-examination. He declined.2
2 Mr. Szymanski’s actions on this point have been troubling. Pursuant to Arizona….. Mr. Szymanski likely should have withdrawn from this case.
Judge Silver said this about USAPA:
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative.
Please be assured that your Phoenix representatives are doing everything within their power to protect the seniority rights of the former America West Pilots as delivered in the agreed upon arbitration process that took place over 7 years ago. As Judge Silver said, “During the course of this case, USAPA employed almost every conceivable delaying tactic.” If you’ve been following our saga, you know that to be a very true statement.
John, Roger & Dave
It’s been an interesting weekend to be sure. This coming week your Phoenix base representatives will be meeting in DFW on Wednesday to have a joint meeting with both APA & USAPA. After that, the BPR will have its own meeting at the hotel we are staying in on Thursday morning. As the announcement says, it is likely this BPR meeting will be “closed.” If you care to stop by, we will be at the Arlington Hilton. As details emerge from this meeting, we will share them with you.
As you know, Judge Silver made her ruling this past Friday. You can read the order HERE, or in the Addington II section of the USAPA Legal Library. If you have not read the ruling in its entirety, we strongly urge you to do so. After we read the ruling, we needed to check our dictionary to fully understand at least one of the descriptive terms used by Judge Silver. Here’s the one we looked up:
Pyrrhic victory – Here it is used in a sentence: “USAPA has succeeded here but it is a Pyrrhic victory.” This is the definition of “pyrrhic victory” from Wikipedia: A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it is tantamount to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll (or cost) negates any sense of achievement or profit.
Judge Silver said the following about Pat Szmanski’s efforts in the court room as well:
Pat Szymanski, counsel for USAPA, was the driving force behind the original provision as well as Paragraph 10(h). (Transcript at 86-88). Mr. Szymanksi did not sit for a deposition nor did he testify at trial. But inappropriately during the trial, from the well of the courtroom, Mr. Szymanski tried to offer testimony about why USAPA proposed these provisions. The Court refused to allow Mr. Szymanski to offer unsworn statements about his motivations and invited him to take the stand, testify under oath, and be subject to cross-examination. He declined.2
2 Mr. Szymanski’s actions on this point have been troubling. Pursuant to Arizona….. Mr. Szymanski likely should have withdrawn from this case.
Judge Silver said this about USAPA:
The Court’s patience with USAPA has run out. USAPA avoided liability on the DFR claim by the slimmest of margins and the Court has serious doubts that USAPA will fairly and adequately represent all of its members while it remains a certified representative.
Please be assured that your Phoenix representatives are doing everything within their power to protect the seniority rights of the former America West Pilots as delivered in the agreed upon arbitration process that took place over 7 years ago. As Judge Silver said, “During the course of this case, USAPA employed almost every conceivable delaying tactic.” If you’ve been following our saga, you know that to be a very true statement.
John, Roger & Dave
That reality being identified, it will be interesting to see what the West reps will propose to APA and what they will expect as part of any SLI. APA may in fact, not be willing or able to support what essentially might be a request that THEY support or advocate a Nic-based SLI. On the other hand, I expect USAPA to act like the tradional Usapians they are and only act in their nature and demand that all occupants of subservient orbital rocks maintain an orbit that is in the best interests of the mother planet USAPA.
01-14-2014 | 04:04 AM
#2418
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 0
From: A320 Capt
I'm sorry, but Usapian logic is unable to recognize any of these neutral observations. That's because any truly loyal subject of the planet USAPA knows there is no such thing as "neutrality". There is ONLY Usapian logic and nothing else. Their universe ALWAYS radiates outward from the dominant planet of USAPA to the subservient rocks of orbit including Earth.
That reality being identified, it will be interesting to see what the West reps will propose to APA and what they will expect as part of any SLI. APA may in fact, not be willing or able to support what essentially might be a request that THEY support or advocate a Nic-based SLI. On the other hand, I expect USAPA to act like the tradional Usapians they are and only act in their nature and demand that all occupants of subservient orbital rocks maintain an orbit that is in the best interests of the mother planet USAPA.
That reality being identified, it will be interesting to see what the West reps will propose to APA and what they will expect as part of any SLI. APA may in fact, not be willing or able to support what essentially might be a request that THEY support or advocate a Nic-based SLI. On the other hand, I expect USAPA to act like the tradional Usapians they are and only act in their nature and demand that all occupants of subservient orbital rocks maintain an orbit that is in the best interests of the mother planet USAPA.
01-14-2014 | 05:49 AM
#2419
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
In essence, your reply was that everyone else who doesn't see this planet according to Usapian philosophy is misguided including lowly AA flow-thrus, West pilots and even judge Silver considering her comments about USAPA.What all the players need to understand is that this ruling doesn't kill the Usapian bull. We have yet to see it target its next china shop and that will be the shop AA pilots currently run. Does anyone think this bull will stop being an angry, ravenous snarling bull and run up to the hilltop like Ferdinand to smell the flowers under the tree ?
If they do, they're fooling themselves.
Last edited by eaglefly; 01-14-2014 at 06:06 AM.
01-14-2014 | 08:15 AM
#2420
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
From: AB 320 Captain
Eagle, your position in your profile states that one of your orifices is shut. From the strange references you make toward USAPA and the solar system, I think your orifice might be leaking!!!! Good look on your flow through.
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