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Old 02-01-2014 | 04:26 PM
  #2531  
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Originally Posted by Wiskey Driver
Never in a million years would I taint myself serving under what I clearly believe to be lower than a scab outfit. I am betting that no one in the west will serve now as its it clear that usapa only seeks to bring harm to west pilots and as such we should never agree to aid in that.

WD at AWA

what did you guys threaten everyone with this time?! double no fly list probation?
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Old 02-01-2014 | 05:24 PM
  #2532  
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Originally Posted by crzipilot
what did you guys threaten everyone with this time?! double no fly list probation?

Don't mess with them. On Monday they are filing another DFR because Hummel accepted the West merger committee member resignations. Its a slam dunk this time. Ferggie and Koontz masterminded the strategy.
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Old 02-02-2014 | 12:10 AM
  #2533  
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Originally Posted by crzipilot
what did you guys threaten everyone with this time?! double no fly list probation?
I dont get it? Sorry

WD at AWA
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Old 02-02-2014 | 06:10 AM
  #2534  
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Originally Posted by freddyc10
I will ask the same question to R57 Relay:

What is your position on the East list?
What is your position on a combined list using DOH?
What is your position on the Nic list?
I don't have any of them with me, I'll have to look when I get home.

I haven't looked at a combined DOH or Nic list in about a year because we have a contract that says neither will be used. Guessing about 45% on east list.
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Old 02-04-2014 | 03:19 PM
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West merger committee members speak

February 4, 2014


Fellow West Pilots:


On Saturday, the four East pilots on the USAPA Merger Committee posted a Merger Committee Update announcing what we had already announced – that we had resigned from the USAPA Merger Committee. That part of their Update was accurate. But that was the only part. The purpose of this letter is to correct the flat inaccuracies and to fill in the gaps of information in that Update. The quotes below come directly from the Update, followed by the truth.

• “While this Committee has always had differences regarding the equity and fairness of the unmodified Nicolau award, the West members have always told us they would consider other methods of integration once the courts ruled. They gave that assurance at the time they were appointed to the Committee and reaffirmed that commitment after their appointments.”

WRONG – When we were interviewed by the BPR for positions on the Merger Committee, we made clear in no uncertain terms that our role – and our only role – was to see to it that the Nicolau Award was the basis for any seniority integration with any other airline. When members of the BPR repeatedly quizzed us on this point, Pat Szymanski – one of USAPA’s lawyers – piped in and told the BPR that our position was perfectly clear and that the BPR should either appoint us or not, but that trying to change our minds through their interrogation was a waste of time. He was right. Our position on the Nicolau Award was clear from the start and never wavered.
• “We have, of course, considered the unmodified Nicolau list and our thorough review clearly demonstrates that it doesn’t satisfy the fair and equitable requirements of McCaskill-Bond, nor is it fair for our pilot group as a whole.”

WRONG – We have seen no analysis presented to, or produced by, the Committee demonstrating that the list produced by the Nicolau Award is not a fair and equitable basis for integrating the US Airways pilots with the American pilots. It was developed under a “fair and equitable” standard by the most respected seniority integration arbitrator in the country for the reasons and under the circumstances that were fully and accurately laid out in his Opinion. No one – no court, arbitrator or serious commentator, other than the East pilots - has said it is not a fair and equitable list. And by the way, as we hardly need tell you, since the Nicolau list was created, West pilots have not enjoyed its benefits and East pilots – who were on the brink of losing their jobs entirely before the merger with America West – have moved happily up the promotion ladder while West pilots have suffered furloughs and displacements. Dave Odell – who was a West first officer when list was issued – was furloughed for a period and is now back flying as an A-320 first officer. And East pilots who were below Dave and were on furlough when the list was issued and had no prospects of ever flying for US Airways again before the merger – are now flying as Captains.

• “During the meeting, the East members repeatedly offered to have [the two of us] review and consider a series of potential SLI methods.”

This is a correct, but a telling statement. We have been on the Merger Committee for eight months. At no point at any meeting that we were at did the Committee develop any integration scenarios; we never even discussed any. But obviously someone had; quite plainly the four East members of the Committee, apparently behind our backs, have developed a “series of potential SLI methods.” If we were supposed to be working collaboratively, how did it come to be that by January 29 there were a “series of potential SLI methods” already developed that we had never heard about?

• “The West members offered as a solution, that they be assigned to a West-only committee to advocate for the unmodified Nicolau award. The East members do not have the ability to approve or disapprove that request, but we told them we would present that request to the BPR. The next morning, before we had the chance to present this request to the BPR, they abruptly resigned via email in a letter that contained numerous inaccuracies.”

We did tell the four East members of the Merger Committee that, if the Committee itself was not going to use the Nicolau Award as a basis for the integration with American, the only fair way to proceed was to create a procedural framework under the Protocol Agreement it was negotiating with APA and the Company that provided for three Merger Committees – an American Committee, an East Committee and a West Committee – thereby allowing the West pilots to advance the Nicolau Award as a basis for integration with the American pilots. That process would put to rest, once and for all, claims that the Nicolau Award was not a fair basis on which to integrate the US Airways list with the American list. If it wasn’t fair, the arbitrators in that case would say so by not using it. The four East Members of the Merger Committee did tell us that they did not have the power to do that (although we do not know why they didn’t have that power – they have been developing and negotiating all other terms of the Protocol Agreement) and would present it to the BPR. But, to quote them “before [they] had the chance to present this request to the BPR” they submitted a proposed Protocol Agreement to APA – over our stated objection – that called for only two Merger Committees – a USAPA Merger Committee and an APA Merger Committee. What is more, they rejected our extremely modest request to put into their proposed Protocol Agreement a provision that would have required the identification of a pilot who was on the Nicolau list and where he would be on that list in the collection and exchange of data with APA. When they sent that proposed Protocol Agreement to APA over our objection, we felt we had no option other than to resign from a Committee that, from the start, had no intention at all in representing the West pilots’ interests.


Perhaps the East pilots on the Merger Committee will present our three-committee proposal to the BPR and perhaps the BPR will adopt it and offer it to APA (who, by their proposed draft seem to have endorsed at least the idea of such an approach). If it does and if APA and the Company accept it, there will be no need for us to serve on the East Merger Committee – the West will have its own Committee. If it does not, we have no interest in serving on a USAPA Merger Committee that will not consider the West pilots’ legitimate interest in having the Nicolau Award at least considered in the upcoming seniority integration process. The point is that either way the BPR decides to go on this point, our usefulness on the Merger Committee, to whatever extent it might have ever been useful, was over.
The BPR has solicited other volunteers from among the West pilot group. Of course, every pilot has to decide for him or herself whether to accept that invitation. But before anyone does consider it, we urge you to read this letter again carefully and think about whether – in light of our experience – you truly feel that the USAPA Merger Committee is headed in a direction that you can endorse.


Ken Stravers

Rocky Calveri
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Old 02-04-2014 | 04:29 PM
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I don't see how the APA is going to be able to deal with this without opening themselves up for endless lawsuits by either the west or east. I think it might have to go to arbitration, and at that point which US Air list do the arbitrators use to mesh with the APA list?
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Old 02-04-2014 | 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Wheels up
I don't see how the APA is going to be able to deal with this without opening themselves up for endless lawsuits by either the west or east. I think it might have to go to arbitration, and at that point which US Air list do the arbitrators use to mesh with the APA list?
I am not aware of anything to indicate APA has ever had any fear about seniority lawsuits, and I don't see why that should change.
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Old 02-04-2014 | 07:31 PM
  #2538  
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Originally Posted by Wheels up
I don't see how the APA is going to be able to deal with this without opening themselves up for endless lawsuits by either the west or east. I think it might have to go to arbitration, and at that point which US Air list do the arbitrators use to mesh with the APA list?

It's very simple for the APA-stay out of this mess. Don't touch it with a ten foot pole and follow the MOU. It calls for separate east/west lists tp be used.
Then if the west sues,again, they can honestly say they had nothing to do with it. The MOU has already been claimed to be illegal and a federal judge said it was.

Not sure why anyone, other than west pilots, can't see that.
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Old 02-04-2014 | 10:20 PM
  #2539  
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Well, we will find out in just a few months just what the APA intends.
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Old 02-05-2014 | 02:47 AM
  #2540  
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Originally Posted by R57 relay
It's very simple for the APA-stay out of this mess. Don't touch it with a ten foot pole and follow the MOU. It calls for separate east/west lists tp be used.
Then if the west sues,again, they can honestly say they had nothing to do with it. The MOU has already been claimed to be illegal and a federal judge said it was.


Not sure why anyone, other than west pilots, can't see that.
I didn't word the above post very well, too late to edit it.

Judge Silver said the MOU was not a failure if USAPAs DFR.
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