R57 relay

I just read in a USAPA update that the APA has given up on the 1:3.25 rig for trips with more calendar days that duty periods.

What do AA guys think of this? I think that with the new rest rules we will be spending more time in hotels. On the east US we have many trips that have 30+ RONS(usually not in places you want one). So, we often end up with 10-11 hour pay for a 3 day trip. The west pilots have a provision called the long rate, where they get an additional min day if there is a layover of more than 24 hrs(do I have that right west?). I'd really like to see one of those stay.

Thoughts?

TQ Nola

We have 3 day trips worth only 11-12 hours also. Apparently the contract mod was 'redeployed' to other areas where the monetary worth could be agreed on (pay raises, per diem, defined pension contribs, training pay, distance learning pay).

I have no problems with it--we'll get the money in those other areas.

It goes without saying that the duty rig fix should be one of the priorities in the next contract.

cactiboss

As usual the west takes in the shorts. This was a big deal for the west as our 3 day Hawaii trips blocked 12 and paid 15.45, big hit. R57 is right, new rest rules mean more long layovers. To add insult to injury they throw the money on per diem which the west already had.

TQ Nola

Wow, you are one bitter dude.

We had $522 million to improve the contract. These are improvements to the contract that we would have been working under. Would I like to be paid 15 hrs to fly to Lima and back? You bet. Instead, I'll get my part of the $522 million elsewhere. So will you.

R57 relay

I guess the 1:3.25 rig wouldn't help a larger part of the new pilot group-long haul international.

Sniper

I wrote something about Southwest's rigs here that sort of 'runs the #'s on what the Southwest rigs do. They do not have a TAFB rig, but do have a 1:1.62 duty rig (.61/hr) and a 5.5 min day, so, a 3 day trip is worth at least 16.5 hours, not 10-11. That's a 50-65% increase in pay on that 3 day!

While some will see a rig as a simple 'money grab' and a way to earn $ for not working, I see it as good for both the company and the pilot group, b/c it incentives the company to build efficient schedules.

To me, you can't simply say 'We'll get the money in other areas', b/c the $ is not easy to quantify, and the removal of the rig lowers QOL, not just your paycheck. In an ideal world, a rig should be worth almost nothing, b/c a well-run airline should use pilots to fly planes, not sit in hotels and/or airports, so the rig rarely kicks in. Which is why I cite Southwest - they're well run, and their pilots don't sit around when they're at work. They also have a min 15 days off per month, so, they have plenty of time to sit around when they're not working, if they choose to, rather than having the company make that choice for them.

Godzilla

The West has a 5:15 per day trip rig.
That would make a three day trip to Lima worth 5:15
They also have pay protection for trips that are cancelled.
Apa also bargained away 60 month pay protection whatever that is.
.
I thought the 522 mil or 87 mil a year was there to improve the contract,not to bargain away items already in the MOU.

Looks like the AA pay increases percentages are just coming up to what was already in the US Air Mou that was voted on by actual union constituents.

One has to wonder what APA will bargain away next with their superior negotiating skills.
Perhaps the retrospective pay scheme.

EXTW

You have understand, APA can only see as far as a pay rate, which still sucks btw. They fail to understand QOL work rules such as the ones that you are discussing that can motivate the company to schedule more efficiently. What other airline out there staffs with 30% reserves?

flybywire44

It's a shame this rig was lost.

R57 relay

I agree with you premise about rigs, but SW is a bit of a different animal. Their domestic only, high utilization schedule helps that equation a lot.

Back around 1992 US Air pilots (by vote of the ALPA MEC) changed our rigs to what DL had. We traded them for a pretty good pay raise. We are now making less than we did then, but we didn't get the rigs back! We immediately went from 23-26 hour 4 days and 17-18 hour 3days to pretty much 20 hour 4 days and 15 hour 3 days. We agreed to the "average day" instead of a hard min day so now often we fly 3 hard days then 1 leg back home on the 4th.

I didn't start this thread to bash the APA or AA pilots. TQ NOLA made a good point that the union had to make a decision that they felt benefited the pilot group best. Many long haul trips are paid no rig at all, so not all pilots would benefit by the long rate or 1:3.25 rig.

I just think a big change is coming at the end of the year and with the type network AA will operate there will be some very long overnights. We have one more bite at the apple with the JCBA, and we all need to make our thoughts known to our reps.

For all the east/west fighting, the US NAC had signed off on the long rate.