New Pay Rates For Those Interested
01-30-2015, 10:58 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: A320 Capt
Posts: 5,293
Originally Posted by A321
Two biggest holes in this JCBA:
-no profit sharing, so total compensation is less than UAL and DAL.... far less.
-no min calendar day credit. Tons and tons of 11 hour 3 day trips.
My March schedule? 12 days off for 83 hours of credit. Back to back to back 11 hr redeye trips. This wouldn't happen at DAL and UAL, since they have min 5/5:15 calendar day credit.
An AA pilot with these pairings has to work 3-5 more days per month to get the same credit as a DAL or UAL pilot. Ridiculous.
-no profit sharing, so total compensation is less than UAL and DAL.... far less.
-no min calendar day credit. Tons and tons of 11 hour 3 day trips.
My March schedule? 12 days off for 83 hours of credit. Back to back to back 11 hr redeye trips. This wouldn't happen at DAL and UAL, since they have min 5/5:15 calendar day credit.
An AA pilot with these pairings has to work 3-5 more days per month to get the same credit as a DAL or UAL pilot. Ridiculous.
How is your TAFB? I live in base and bid red eyes. Much better QOL than the 4 days I can hold. Commuter? Not so much.
01-30-2015, 11:00 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 250
Am I reading this right? No min day pay? What are the duty rigs? So basically AA pilots will bring home far less pay than DL or UA guys when working the same number of days? I can't tell you how many times I work a redeye that gets in at 5am and still make 5 hours, or have a 2 night layover and credit the 5 hours for the day I didn't fly. There has to be more to the story.....
01-30-2015, 11:10 AM
#43
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
Here were the rates in place in 2013 for some perspective
Before you L-US guys ***** look at how far you've come in such a short time.
Most of the stuff given up didn't even effect you because your contract didn't have it (HBT, intl/dom, etc).
Keep those in mind when it comes to the SLI. Most FOs will be making more than any captain ever did.
Second year Group II pays more than topped out 330 FO did.
Before you L-US guys ***** look at how far you've come in such a short time.
Most of the stuff given up didn't even effect you because your contract didn't have it (HBT, intl/dom, etc).
Keep those in mind when it comes to the SLI. Most FOs will be making more than any captain ever did.
Second year Group II pays more than topped out 330 FO did.
01-30-2015, 11:19 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,889
Originally Posted by LivinTheDream28
Am I reading this right? No min day pay? What are the duty rigs? So basically AA pilots will bring home far less pay than DL or UA guys when working the same number of days? I can't tell you how many times I work a redeye that gets in at 5am and still make 5 hours, or have a 2 night layover and credit the 5 hours for the day I didn't fly. There has to be more to the story.....
01-30-2015, 11:29 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 767-400
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by aa73
Canoe, actually they have 117. But yes they are in group 2.
717 would also be in group 2 for us.
Delta E190 rate (group 1) is lower.
717 would also be in group 2 for us.
Delta E190 rate (group 1) is lower.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...oeing-717.html
2) Delta has no E190s and no plans to get them.
3) To get a 7% raise above Delta you needed to get a 23% (7% + 16.5% in profit sharing) raise above Delta rates. A pilot at delta making $150000 in flight pay will $24,750 on 2/14/2015.
4) Sucks for Delta in this section 6, because AA just extended their BK work rules from 5 more years (ie 5 hour avg vs 5:15 calendar day). Delta ALPA will now struggle to make any gains thanks to this deal APA just signed.
Sigh....
01-30-2015, 11:31 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 767-400
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by aa73
No more to the story. Those work rules were not part of the JCBA, and they weren't there with either a Yes or No vote. Management has refused to fix those items. However I do believe the union will be able to get a fix in via side letters, as delta did, when the company needs the union's cooperation with merger and implementation issues.
01-30-2015, 11:34 AM
#47
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
Originally Posted by BigGuns
1) Delta 717 has 110 seats.
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...oeing-717.html
2) Delta has no E190s and no plans to get them.
3) To get a 7% raise above Delta you needed to get a 23% (7% + 16.5% in profit sharing) raise above Delta rates. A pilot at delta making $150000 in flight pay will $24,750 on 2/14/2015.
4) Sucks for Delta in this section 6, because AA just extended their BK work rules from 5 more years (ie 5 hour avg vs 5:15 calendar day). Delta ALPA will now struggle to make any gains thanks to this deal APA just signed.
Sigh....
https://www.delta.com/content/www/en...oeing-717.html
2) Delta has no E190s and no plans to get them.
3) To get a 7% raise above Delta you needed to get a 23% (7% + 16.5% in profit sharing) raise above Delta rates. A pilot at delta making $150000 in flight pay will $24,750 on 2/14/2015.
4) Sucks for Delta in this section 6, because AA just extended their BK work rules from 5 more years (ie 5 hour avg vs 5:15 calendar day). Delta ALPA will now struggle to make any gains thanks to this deal APA just signed.
Sigh....
01-30-2015, 11:40 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 767-400
Posts: 797
Originally Posted by inline five
Thanks bro go back to counting your money.
"Mr. Parker believes that pilots “don’t have that much impact on daily profits” and he is obviously not interested in compensating us like our peers at Delta and United who do have profit sharing. Management’s LBFO leaves us considerably lagging when compared to what we know will be 2015 Delta pilot W2 earnings and, what’s worse, that’s based on a contract that both ALPA and Delta management have committed to amend before yearthe end of this . Remember, this is about total compensation; it is not just limited to just hourly pay rates. Even if Delta ALPA only achieves a small hourly rate increase, their 2016 W2 earnings will almost certainly still include profit sharing or other compensation improvements landing them some 20% higher than our own management’s LBFO compensation proposal of today."
01-30-2015, 11:46 AM
#49
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: A320 F/O
Posts: 442
DAL needed something like a 23% raise on Jan 1 2016 (not life of contract) in order to hit our rates. IIRC the last one you got was what, 7, 5, 3, 3?
In addition, there was a clause about higher than normal increases being thrown out (ie if you converted profit sharing to hourly rates).
Everyone is on this profit sharing kick but the truth is, Doug was right when he said it was a bankruptcy era pay structure.
I'm super happy it's working out swell for you guys right now and gives you some awesome numbers to throw around whe you gloat about it though.
In addition, there was a clause about higher than normal increases being thrown out (ie if you converted profit sharing to hourly rates).
Everyone is on this profit sharing kick but the truth is, Doug was right when he said it was a bankruptcy era pay structure.
I'm super happy it's working out swell for you guys right now and gives you some awesome numbers to throw around whe you gloat about it though.
01-30-2015, 11:52 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Originally Posted by aa73
No more to the story. Those work rules were not part of the JCBA, and they weren't there with either a Yes or No vote. Management has refused to fix those items. However I do believe the union will be able to get a fix in via side letters, as delta did, when the company needs the union's cooperation with merger and implementation issues.
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