JFeeney

From a DL guy.....I hope all my bretheren at AA/US/AW do as well as possible under this contract. God knows, we've all suffered enough over the last 13 years.

Bummed about the lack of a minimum calendar day credit, but maybe Douggie will need something down the road.....and you can negotiate that in.

A little birdie told me that our turn will come in 5 months. Good luck everyone.

DrivinTheDash

On the US side of the operation, at least, we definitely have trips that pay less. Today's 3-day DUB pays 14:35, while the 4-day version that operates some days pays 19:09. The SNN 3-day I flew during the season was worth a dismal 13:55. There aren't many Europe trips below 5:00/day, though they are out there, and even more when you compare to Delta's 5:15/day.

The 717 would be a Group 2 airplane, if we had the foresight to negotiate it as such instead of agreeing to a size limit on Group 1 that includes the 717 and the similarly sized E-195. As to the 717 having "the same approximate # of seats as A319, maybe a couple less", the reality is that, as configured, the DL 717 has 14% fewer seats than an AA A-319 (110 vs. 128).

aa73

The 717 would HAVE to be a group 2 aircraft. The company would not be allowed to just arbitrarily stick it into group 1, since Group 1 aircraft have been clearly defined, and the 717 is not in there.

Grumpyaviator

Actually, aa pilot group voted to let mgmt have their way on those issues.

aa73

Really? So a No vote would have fixed those?

DrivinTheDash

This is just 100% incorrect... Group I has, as you mention, been clearly defined, and the definition solidly the includes the 717, which seats about 110. What is it about the definitions of the groups would you interpret as making the 717 a Group II airplane? There would be nothing arbitrary about sticking the 717 into the group whose definition in fits. Unless AA chose to squeeze in 119+ seats - which is more than the typical single-class configuration - the 717 fits right in to the definition we agreed to for Group I.

aa73

Drivin,

the groups are defined by the aircraft that are listed in Each respective group.

If a new aircraft is ordered, and it is not in any group, it must be negotiated between AA and APA as to what group it will fall into.

Otherwise, the A321T could be fit into Group 1, as it's only configured at 102 seats. Or any aircraft for that matter.

If the aircraft is not in there, it has to be negotiated.

The 717 is not included into group 1. Only those aircraft listed there are. Hence, APA would negotiate the 717 into a group 2 aircraft.

DrivinTheDash

Wong again... It's in very clear, plain language!

Group I includes all aircraft that meet two requirements:

1) "With the exception of aircraft identified in Groups II through V below"

and

2) "any aircraft configured (i.e. as operated by American Airlines) with greater than seventy-six (76) seats and less than one-hundred-eighteen (118) seats"

The 717 is not identified in Groups II through V, and would almost certainly be configured with greater than 76 and fewer than 118 seats. It is, without question, a Group I airplane.

The A321T can't be a Group I airplane, because it fails test #1 above... It is specifically named as a Group II airplane:

You are correct that Groups II-V are defined by the aircraft specifically listed in the groups; Group I, however, is defined by the capacity of the aircraft, with the exception of aircraft that are specified as belonging to a different group. The only new aircraft that would require negotiations over grouping would be if we got something that had over 118 seats that was not already named in Groups II-V. Such an aircraft would fail the second test above, so would not be in Group I, but would also not be in any other group by default.

aa73

Edit: my union guy just contacted me again and corrected himself. It appears you're right. The language used to say "certificated", now it says "configured."

So he then said that it would probably be grieved due to the fact that the equipment doesn't show up in Group 1, but we'd probably lose that.

Disregard all I said and bravo for pointing that out. My bad.

inline five

That's straight out of the contract everyone else just didn't read the next paragraph...

Sorta, there is something about a 50% rule, not sure how it would apply really.

Its a moot point because Delta is buying all the ones it can and we'll never have them.