I recall reading labor costs were #2 behind fuel. Heck, considering present oil prices, they're probably now #1.

That's nothing new. Labor costs have always been the highest cost for the airlines, less the last 4-5 years of oil prices.

Rough estimate back when fuel was $3+/gal a 50 seat RJ cost around $2k/hr to run, an A320/B737 was up around $5k.

Includes all costs, direct and indirect.

You would of course have to reduce that figure by how much fuel has fallen nowadays, call it around $3500 for the B737 today everything else remaining the same.

So you can see even adding 20% to the flight crew hourly wage, while significant, doesn't effect the overall cost of the airplane by that much.

Labor costs may indeed by the #1 cost to an airline, but behind every two pilots are:

2-8+ FAs
2-3 Gate agents
5-10? ramp agents
Tons of Maintenance folks
??? Management
Training staff
Bean counters, payroll clerks, mail clerks, marketing, ticket agents, list goes on

Assuming pilots as a labor group make up ALL of the airline's labor costs is just incorrect.

What's nice about this aircraft is that the Contract allows the Company to operate the 195 at maximum capacity (144) even though the would probably make it two class like the A320. The Group one pilots can upgrade to Captain quicker knowing that their future is brighter for them with greater job security. The older A319/320/MD80-83 aircraft can be retired with just 737-800/900 and A321's and neos in Group II. If Group III is ultimately retired, and this year looks like many of the 757/767 class going out the Company saves big time by consolidating aircraft groups since pilot labor costs are the highest of all the groups.

Simplification makes the Company much more profitable in preparation for 2020. With new pilots on the Group I making more money, with better benefits and having control of the larger group of the pilots numerically I see no need for the APA to try to take from the junior to give to the senior.

New hires now will control their own financial destiny and 2020 will be the year the senior will get the scraps. Five years of great pay for the most senior, for now.

Exactly my point.

I'm pretty sure Group I has always been the "cheapest part" of the pilot labor contract...and the MTA pay rates were even cheaper than the JCBA rates.

So if they are salivating so much, why have they only operated a handful of E190s for so long?

I actually hope they DO order E190/195s to start bringing in some of the RJ flying. Eventually the staffing issues at Envoy, Piedmont, Mesa and PSA will only get worse.

If the company brought on E195's would the min guarantee be based on Group I or II? We're going down a dangerous path asking for overrides like people wanted for the 321. Hell they could keep one E190, base all reserves and min guarantee off that, and have a bunch of E195's doing the majority of the flying.

This is why I support one rate across all fleets, with an override for international stuff because of the PITA factor of it.

I expect to see a Group I order for the simple fact that regionals will become more unreliable in the coming years and AA will have to take steps to ensure their brand's operation. While the majors have no shortage of applicants the regionals are starving for pilots. They will have to make a similar move as Delta did with the 717.

ExpressJet lost over 100 pilots in January alone. They tried to hire 40 pilots and got 6... All this while performing extra flying that Endeavour couldn't staff.

And capturing group 1 at the mainline is wrong in what way again...??

Good Lord guys. We got the jets, we got the flying. They haven't even ordered them, I'm not sure they even will. Sure I'd love a higher pay rate but how were we going to get that by voting No? The mantra just a few years ago was "get the 190s on mainline." Now we're already complaining about them.

Perspective, folks!

^^^^Exactly^^^^

When the discussion was about scope, everyone was "buy more E190s! Bring the E175s on property!"

Now it's "just wait, they'll order E190s and you'll be sorry".

Good grief.