Notices

APA PHX Scores AGAIN!

Old 04-07-2015, 01:14 PM
  #41  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Default

Originally Posted by Route66 View Post
This is why I don't want a union here anymore. The APA took the West side over a legitimately voted in union and we now have 1500 union busters hating 3500 "union busters".

I am strictly a company man now and I make sure every new hire knows that to have a good career simply follow the SOPs, do your job, go home and enjoy your families. The Company has your back, the APA and the West are going to only make things worst.

When 2020 comes around you'll be making Captain and you'll be making more money regardless what the union does so enjoy it because you'll be thankful you won't have to jerk the gear for West guys or APA troublemakers like cactiboss.
The company hired you and the company can fire you... and the APA gets to F you... Bless the company (at least pretend when they are looking).

The knuckle headed APA is now calling on pilots to refuse scheduling assignments that are (in the opinion of the APA) contrary to the contract.

UnFing believable... The APA couldn't fight against the membership fast enough and hard enough to pass the JCBA immediately at the behest of management (contrary to all common sense in the most insane profit period of airline history)... The APA couldn't muster a whimper of protest in the easiest of negotiating environments, but now they want individuals to buck the company and offer the chief pilot a middle finger?

Where to H will the APA be when the chief pilot fires you? The APA will be busy eating at another expensed obscenely lavish dinner.
PurpleTurtle is offline  
Old 04-07-2015, 01:22 PM
  #42  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Default

Originally Posted by justjack View Post
I started out at Piedmont- I am on your side about seniority. Still, I know that an individual worker will never have a voice. Our only hope is through collective action. If you reap the benefits of the union then you have to pay union dues otherwise you are indeed a freeloader, by definition(not my opinion) . Your other choice is to find a profession that does not need/have a union.
The benefit of a union is disputable, at best--especially the white collar management wannabe pilot unions. The day the free market allows paying as much or as little as one wants to a union is the day the unions will actually have to perform for their members rather than the self-important leaches calling themselves leaders.

Oh the irony.. a union having to leverage the ideals of capitalism to survive.
PurpleTurtle is offline  
Old 04-07-2015, 01:38 PM
  #43  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Default

Originally Posted by justjack View Post
WE are the union and WE are responsible for our failures. ...
The "union" has nothing sacred except preserving and expanding the dues stream to pay for flight pay loss and lavish dinners. The mere membership is expendable to that end.


The impossibility of a union's success should be evident from its premise. Perpetual dissatisfaction is the fortuitous and necessary impetus that lays the membership ripe for exploitation, even as they feel empowered to improve upon the company that is in fact in collusion with a minority of pilots that are pacifying the masses by feigning a fight.

Its quite symbiotic. The masses are entertained, distracted, or pacified in their "battle". The equivocators become rich and live in houses they can't afford apart from the symbiotic assistance... Chicago mortgages are expensive.
PurpleTurtle is offline  
Old 04-07-2015, 04:57 PM
  #44  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,233
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle View Post
The company hired you and the company can fire you... and the APA gets to F you... Bless the company (at least pretend when they are looking).

The knuckle headed APA is now calling on pilots to refuse scheduling assignments that are (in the opinion of the APA) contrary to the contract.

UnFing believable... The APA couldn't fight against the membership fast enough and hard enough to pass the JCBA immediately at the behest of management (contrary to all common sense in the most insane profit period of airline history)... The APA couldn't muster a whimper of protest in the easiest of negotiating environments, but now they want individuals to buck the company and offer the chief pilot a middle finger?

Where to H will the APA be when the chief pilot fires you? The APA will be busy eating at another expensed obscenely lavish dinner.
Yep.

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle View Post
The benefit of a union is disputable, at best--especially the white collar management wannabe pilot unions. The day the free market allows paying as much or as little as one wants to a union is the day the unions will actually have to perform for their members rather than the self-important leaches calling themselves leaders.

Oh the irony.. a union having to leverage the ideals of capitalism to survive.
Yep....again.

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle View Post
The "union" has nothing sacred except preserving and expanding the dues stream to pay for flight pay loss and lavish dinners. The mere membership is expendable to that end.


The impossibility of a union's success should be evident from its premise. Perpetual dissatisfaction is the fortuitous and necessary impetus that lays the membership ripe for exploitation, even as they feel empowered to improve upon the company that is in fact in collusion with a minority of pilots that are pacifying the masses by feigning a fight.

Its quite symbiotic. The masses are entertained, distracted, or pacified in their "battle". The equivocators become rich and live in houses they can't afford apart from the symbiotic assistance... Chicago mortgages are expensive.
Three for three!

It's funny, you didn't see what I was getting at before but now (and I know you still don't like me) after the MOU and the JCBA getting voted in I think you get my point. The union is there for show only.

We have to get paid, but having "two masters" is at best a joke. Keep the money, I say. Then you can buy your "lavish" dinners.
Route66 is offline  
Old 04-07-2015, 08:29 PM
  #45  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle View Post
The company hired you and the company can fire you... and the APA gets to F you... Bless the company (at least pretend when they are looking).

The knuckle headed APA is now calling on pilots to refuse scheduling assignments that are (in the opinion of the APA) contrary to the contract.

UnFing believable... The APA couldn't fight against the membership fast enough and hard enough to pass the JCBA immediately at the behest of management (contrary to all common sense in the most insane profit period of airline history)... The APA couldn't muster a whimper of protest in the easiest of negotiating environments, but now they want individuals to buck the company and offer the chief pilot a middle finger?

Where to H will the APA be when the chief pilot fires you? The APA will be busy eating at another expensed obscenely lavish dinner.
The dinner was a terrible lapse in judgment. I agree. But we can find a way to become a formidable block that the company cannot manipulate into doing their own bidding. I do not see how you can believe that we are better off fighting corporate conglomerates as individuals.
justjack is offline  
Old 04-07-2015, 08:36 PM
  #46  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
Default

Originally Posted by Route66 View Post
Yep.



Yep....again.



Three for three!

It's funny, you didn't see what I was getting at before but now (and I know you still don't like me) after the MOU and the JCBA getting voted in I think you get my point. The union is there for show only.

We have to get paid, but having "two masters" is at best a joke. Keep the money, I say. Then you can buy your "lavish" dinners.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the APA Constitution & Bylaws. The portions dictating the process of negotiations are simply a work of art. But most everyone was unwilling to follow the CB&L

The problem is the company worked overtime to dislodge the BOD from their Constitutional process of negotiations... Uh, I mean the National officers of APA worked overtime in collaboration with the Company to seperate the BOD from the Costitutional process... Hell, the Negotiaing Chairman was right there with the National Officers. And on the second front we had a large number of short sighted individualists on the BOD that did their best to seperate the membership from the BOD members that were on the right track. (Something about ORD mortgages). In that environment it was easy for a sweeping majority of membership to be caught like monkeys with their hand in the proverbial monkey trap, unable to rationally think while their hand was seized upon the ParkirbyGlass bait, the CB&L forgotten or reviled.

The pilot union experiment has now concluded. There will never be a more opportune time to negotiate with management. Never.

If leaders and members will not read their own Costitution, much less follow it (or worse, actually flout it) then by definition they are the ones who are anti Union.
PurpleTurtle is offline  
Old 04-08-2015, 02:54 AM
  #47  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,233
Default

Originally Posted by PurpleTurtle View Post
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the APA Constitution & Bylaws. The portions dictating the process of negotiations are simply a work of art. But most everyone was unwilling to follow the CB&L

The problem is the company worked overtime to dislodge the BOD from their Constitutional process of negotiations... Uh, I mean the National officers of APA worked overtime in collaboration with the Company to seperate the BOD from the Costitutional process... Hell, the Negotiaing Chairman was right there with the National Officers. And on the second front we had a large number of short sighted individualists on the BOD that did their best to seperate the membership from the BOD members that were on the right track. (Something about ORD mortgages). In that environment it was easy for a sweeping majority of membership to be caught like monkeys with their hand in the proverbial monkey trap, unable to rationally think while their hand was seized upon the ParkirbyGlass bait, the CB&L forgotten or reviled.

The pilot union experiment has now concluded. There will never be a more opportune time to negotiate with management. Never.

If leaders and members will not read their own Costitution, much less follow it (or worse, actually flout it) then by definition they are the ones who are anti Union.
That has been my contention.
Route66 is offline  
Old 04-08-2015, 02:57 AM
  #48  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,233
Default

Originally Posted by justjack View Post
The dinner was a terrible lapse in judgment. I agree. But we can find a way to become a formidable block that the company cannot manipulate into doing their own bidding. I do not see how you can believe that we are better off fighting corporate conglomerates as individuals.
Because we CAN'T fight them together. Everyone has a different idea about seniority. I am NOT going to be part of a union that puts "scab" in their Constitution. Any group like the APA, ALPA or the West that strips their fellow pilots of their time in service is NOT. A union member and anyone who believes otherwise strips the meaning of unionism from the rank and file.

Gotta go.
Route66 is offline  
Old 04-08-2015, 06:56 PM
  #49  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Default

Originally Posted by Route66 View Post
Because we CAN'T fight them together. Everyone has a different idea about seniority. I am NOT going to be part of a union that puts "scab" in their Constitution. Any group like the APA, ALPA or the West that strips their fellow pilots of their time in service is NOT. A union member and anyone who believes otherwise strips the meaning of unionism from the rank and file.

Gotta go.
So why not start now. Let the past go. "Bygones".... Everybody say it with me. Come up with a standard and stick with it.
justjack is offline  
Old 04-08-2015, 07:19 PM
  #50  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Wiskey Driver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 1,353
Default

Originally Posted by justjack View Post
So why not start now. Let the past go. "Bygones".... Everybody say it with me. Come up with a standard and stick with it.
Trust is a funny thing in that once violated the chances of ever regaining it are slim to none. That ship sailed back in 08 now we have hatred and disgust that will linger on until people are made whole and since the chances of that are even slimmer I will go so far as to say that it will be here until 2030.

WD at AWA
Wiskey Driver is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
A321
American
89
01-28-2015 07:55 PM
nwa757
American
178
01-10-2015 11:54 AM
RiddleEagle18
Major
60
04-26-2012 09:16 AM
say that again
Cargo
2
04-04-2011 07:59 PM
Spanky189
Major
13
01-30-2010 11:11 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread