Southern Air B-747 or Contract B-767 Flying
12-31-2005, 10:46 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is great reading! I just had to register to put in my two-cents worth.
HEY B73H,
Everyone's right, you can't be a pilot, in fact, you can't even be in college, probably more like Day-Care!
If you don't know what you're talking about, I suggest staying out of it. You're getting hammered and the more you write, the more stupid you sound. Geez, how many applications and resume's do you think Jetblue has on file. You think just because you fly big or fast airplanes that they call you just like that?
I'm flying KC-10s in the sandbox (no, not your Day-Care sand-box) and pilots here are faced with the same complex issues that Snoopy747, TACAMO, Schnides, Mach25 face everyday about civilian flying when they punch out of military.
Life's not as simple as using your parents credit cards and getting drunk at school.
Seriously B73H, pilots have commited suicide because they lost everything after 9-11, some have lost homes, some have destroyed their marriages due to lifestyle change....and it goes on and on.
You make it sound easy, but it's not. Most young pilots even understands this basic concept. Unless you're not living in the US or so stoned and drunk to understand this issue, the basic concept should be easy to understand. Somehow, because of your lack of awareness, it leads me to believe that you're not a pilot either.
Yeah, everybody's being hard on you. Quite frankly, TACAMO took it easy on you, I've heard a lot worse to people who take things lightly when pilots are fighting with everything they have to maintain a lifestyle, financial security and continue to fly.
Though I want to continue to have entertainment by reading what you post and the feedback you've been receiving, it's about time you stop this nonsense and wasting everybody's time.
HEY B73H,
Everyone's right, you can't be a pilot, in fact, you can't even be in college, probably more like Day-Care!
If you don't know what you're talking about, I suggest staying out of it. You're getting hammered and the more you write, the more stupid you sound. Geez, how many applications and resume's do you think Jetblue has on file. You think just because you fly big or fast airplanes that they call you just like that?
I'm flying KC-10s in the sandbox (no, not your Day-Care sand-box) and pilots here are faced with the same complex issues that Snoopy747, TACAMO, Schnides, Mach25 face everyday about civilian flying when they punch out of military.
Life's not as simple as using your parents credit cards and getting drunk at school.
Seriously B73H, pilots have commited suicide because they lost everything after 9-11, some have lost homes, some have destroyed their marriages due to lifestyle change....and it goes on and on.
You make it sound easy, but it's not. Most young pilots even understands this basic concept. Unless you're not living in the US or so stoned and drunk to understand this issue, the basic concept should be easy to understand. Somehow, because of your lack of awareness, it leads me to believe that you're not a pilot either.
Yeah, everybody's being hard on you. Quite frankly, TACAMO took it easy on you, I've heard a lot worse to people who take things lightly when pilots are fighting with everything they have to maintain a lifestyle, financial security and continue to fly.
Though I want to continue to have entertainment by reading what you post and the feedback you've been receiving, it's about time you stop this nonsense and wasting everybody's time.
12-31-2005, 11:07 AM
#22
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Whoa, alot of emotions coming out on this thread. Good reading, but I wanted to appeal to my colleagues Mach25 and TACAMO to take it easy on this obviously uniformed college-kid. Hey, we've all been 22 and full of ****-and-vinegar, and he/she is entitled to opine. He/she just made a post with an opinion, and does'nt have the airline experience to actually do so. Let's take it easy on him/her, and try and understand he/she does'nt really know what it's like in the military or at an airline.
Snoop, I wish you well. Do what's best for you and yours. I have been at 2 majors and 5 charters, 1 foreign, and know all too well how tough it is out there. Take the guys from Southern, who actually know the working conditions and have been there. Sounds bad, but it can be used as a stepping stone. Many of my furloughed colleagues went there for 3-6 months and moved on to FedEx, Polar/Atlas and UPS.
Good luck, and happy new year to all.
Snoop, I wish you well. Do what's best for you and yours. I have been at 2 majors and 5 charters, 1 foreign, and know all too well how tough it is out there. Take the guys from Southern, who actually know the working conditions and have been there. Sounds bad, but it can be used as a stepping stone. Many of my furloughed colleagues went there for 3-6 months and moved on to FedEx, Polar/Atlas and UPS.
Good luck, and happy new year to all.
12-31-2005, 03:40 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 108
This is great.. I thought it was good effort when 18 wheeler tried to put us all back on track with the Southern Air topic.. and really good info as well. Probably some of the best yet on the whole thread .... but I have to hand it to one of my brothers out here in the sand (Frank)... How can you pass up B73H when he comes back in for another fresh one after that first beating 
Sorry 757.. He is really that stupid ... but really.. back to Southern Air.. If that's alright with you B73H ??? Like a drunk taking a beating in the parking lot ... you can drink 73 .. can't you.. I mean on a legal ID ? ... See.. it's so hard to stop..
Sorry 757.. He is really that stupid ... but really.. back to Southern Air.. If that's alright with you B73H ??? Like a drunk taking a beating in the parking lot ... you can drink 73 .. can't you.. I mean on a legal ID ? ... See.. it's so hard to stop..
12-31-2005, 04:29 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hello All,
You guys/gals just crack me up! Schnides and LAfrequentflyer, you folks had me rolling!
Just got back home after talking to several of my colleagues about different companies and different quality of life styles. There are many plus and minuses to both roads.
To all that have "felt my/our pain and frustration" and covered my Six o'clock, thanks very much. I guess that's the spirit of my brothers and sisters out there, "take no prisoners, protect your brothers and sisters and don't let the bastard take you down". I wish you all the success and safe flying in 2006. For those of you in the Desert, safe flying and I hope you come home soon.
To 18Wheeler, Amigo and B757200ER, and others, many thanks for your insight into Southern and other flying opportunities. It's a tough call and I'm really going to have to search deep down to find the right path to take for me and my family. Safe and Happy flying for all of you in 2006.
To B73H, I hope you can understand the emotions out here in the world of professional flying. Perhaps you didn't mean it, and sentences can be misinterpreted, but I believe many took your posting as arrogant and in-your-face from a pilot with little or no experience in the professional arena. Your entitled to say what you believe, however, you have entered a field where many of us (a bit older pilots) are at "wits-end", frustrated and demoralized. You really hit a raw nerve with these pilots, hence the replies you received. You see on cable-television of companies such as Pan Am Flight Academy advertising claims of "instantly" becoming a professional pilot after completion of their program, but trust me, it isn't that easy to make a six figure income, flying big jets and sipping Maitai's in the South Pacific. Though the replies from some have been pretty "brutal", read in-between the lines at what they are telling you. Respect those who are fighting hard to continue a dream of flying and trying to live a normal standard of quality of life. As my brother in flight in the Desert put it earlier, there are pilots eating pop-tarts out there, to see a dream come true...well put.. Schnides.
B73H, I never intended this thread to become a "B73H bashing sessions". Perhaps it's best to just read the postings (sit-back in the dugout and not participate) and learn, so in the future you can make a sound judgement towards a professional flying career. It's your choice though.
So, back to Southern Air:
18Wheeler:
1. What's international deadheading like at Southern? Is it sitting in Economy Class in the middle section twice a month for 14 hours with no-pay?
2. Do you get the choice of air carrier to dead-head? There are some carriers if I had a choice would rather not?
3. I hear the conditions at Aero Services for training is less than desirable (Aero Service instructors are rated very low in the the training industry), do Southern use thier own instructors and check airmen?
4. I'm not sure you would be answer this question, however, what's the main reason pilots leave Southern (pay, working conditions, management-pilot relationship)?
5. I understand from others that there is no pay during the training period only per-diem?
6. How are the Southern Air check-airmen? Are they cut-throat during the probationary period?
7. What is the Captain upgrade time?
8. What's been their corporate stablity, has there been layoffs in the past?
Many thanks to all, keep the posting going, I'm sure it's helping many out there.
Again to all, "A Happy, Successful and Safe 2006".
Snoopy747
You guys/gals just crack me up! Schnides and LAfrequentflyer, you folks had me rolling!
Just got back home after talking to several of my colleagues about different companies and different quality of life styles. There are many plus and minuses to both roads.
To all that have "felt my/our pain and frustration" and covered my Six o'clock, thanks very much. I guess that's the spirit of my brothers and sisters out there, "take no prisoners, protect your brothers and sisters and don't let the bastard take you down". I wish you all the success and safe flying in 2006. For those of you in the Desert, safe flying and I hope you come home soon.
To 18Wheeler, Amigo and B757200ER, and others, many thanks for your insight into Southern and other flying opportunities. It's a tough call and I'm really going to have to search deep down to find the right path to take for me and my family. Safe and Happy flying for all of you in 2006.
To B73H, I hope you can understand the emotions out here in the world of professional flying. Perhaps you didn't mean it, and sentences can be misinterpreted, but I believe many took your posting as arrogant and in-your-face from a pilot with little or no experience in the professional arena. Your entitled to say what you believe, however, you have entered a field where many of us (a bit older pilots) are at "wits-end", frustrated and demoralized. You really hit a raw nerve with these pilots, hence the replies you received. You see on cable-television of companies such as Pan Am Flight Academy advertising claims of "instantly" becoming a professional pilot after completion of their program, but trust me, it isn't that easy to make a six figure income, flying big jets and sipping Maitai's in the South Pacific. Though the replies from some have been pretty "brutal", read in-between the lines at what they are telling you. Respect those who are fighting hard to continue a dream of flying and trying to live a normal standard of quality of life. As my brother in flight in the Desert put it earlier, there are pilots eating pop-tarts out there, to see a dream come true...well put.. Schnides.
B73H, I never intended this thread to become a "B73H bashing sessions". Perhaps it's best to just read the postings (sit-back in the dugout and not participate) and learn, so in the future you can make a sound judgement towards a professional flying career. It's your choice though.
So, back to Southern Air:
18Wheeler:
1. What's international deadheading like at Southern? Is it sitting in Economy Class in the middle section twice a month for 14 hours with no-pay?
2. Do you get the choice of air carrier to dead-head? There are some carriers if I had a choice would rather not?
3. I hear the conditions at Aero Services for training is less than desirable (Aero Service instructors are rated very low in the the training industry), do Southern use thier own instructors and check airmen?
4. I'm not sure you would be answer this question, however, what's the main reason pilots leave Southern (pay, working conditions, management-pilot relationship)?
5. I understand from others that there is no pay during the training period only per-diem?
6. How are the Southern Air check-airmen? Are they cut-throat during the probationary period?
7. What is the Captain upgrade time?
8. What's been their corporate stablity, has there been layoffs in the past?
Many thanks to all, keep the posting going, I'm sure it's helping many out there.
Again to all, "A Happy, Successful and Safe 2006".
Snoopy747
12-31-2005, 08:13 PM
#27
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Snoopy, I will bet you a six-pack #2 is "HELL, NO". You fly on the cheapest, most deeply-discounted coach fare, most likely bought 1 day prior to your travel, so all that is left is a middle seat in coach. It may be Continental or JAL, but it could also be Biman Bangladesh or Aeroflot.
As for #3, you are absolutely right when describing Aeroservice Training Company in MIA. Cheapest, lousiest, most disreputable training location in the US----bar none.
As for #3, you are absolutely right when describing Aeroservice Training Company in MIA. Cheapest, lousiest, most disreputable training location in the US----bar none.
01-01-2006, 12:04 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 108
Wow.. pretty eye opening to hear about Aeroservice.. They're having a job seminar on Jan 21st and one of our pilots here getting out of the Navy is going. Most of the companies going are listed on their website looked like a list of second tier supplemental carriers. A few good ones were listed though... Mostly cargo guys flying 747s, DC8s, and a commuter or two. Cathey was going as well.
Snoop, your advice to B73H was very eloquently stated... Well done ! .. Sometimes it's too easy to watch the sharks circle when there's blood in the water, but it was hard not to say something to the guy who throws chum in before he goes swimming Sorry 73... I'm still laughing at some of that stuff.. you guys crack me up
Snoop, your advice to B73H was very eloquently stated... Well done ! .. Sometimes it's too easy to watch the sharks circle when there's blood in the water, but it was hard not to say something to the guy who throws chum in before he goes swimming
Sorry 73... I'm still laughing at some of that stuff.. you guys crack me up
01-01-2006, 06:36 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: B747 CA
Posts: 86
Southern Air
Snoopy questions:
1.and 2. International deadheadand carrier choice. It will normally be coach and unfortunatly you do not have a choice of carrier. Mostly US carriers. They are not always the cheapest either, they will not make you do 4 or 5 legs to save a nickel.
They try to get direct routing when possible. With the Cathay trips you will normally get Business class. Guys have gotten coach and first class, about even there.
It all depends on your bid line and where you will start you trips. It could be in the lower 48, Anchorage, Hong Kong, Europe, or Dubai. Three quarters start in lower 48 and Anchorage.
It does suck that you do not get DH pay the first year. I guess its the price you pay for home basing. Personnaly jumpseating sucks more than no DH pay for a year.
3. Southern Air uses their own instructors in the sims and for ground school.
All of the PFE's that teach the ground school are great. Very professional and will help you as much as you need, just ask.
4. Reason for leaving. I know some went to Focus for direct to captain and top of seniority list there.
Others were recalled or went to different passenger carriers.
I would guess the main reason would be quality of life. Being away from home for long periods is not fun. If I leave that will be why.
A factor could have been the growing pains in going from 1 to 4 airplanes in a short time. A bit caotic for a while there.
5. Pay during training. You will be paid for block time during OE.
They have always been punctual with pay.
6. Of the the nine check airmen there is only one that they sould get rid of.
The rest do such a good job it is embarassing to have this one ruin the reputation of the rest.
7. Upgrade time. When I was hired the company went from 1 airplane to 4 in just a few months. Captains were hired off the street. Not all that were hired as captains are flying as captains. With good reason they are particular who will sit in the left seat. The upgrades in class now have been here around a year and a half. Many factors will determine upgrade: attrition through retirement, resignations, adding to fleet, personal ability and recomendations.
8. Layoffs. They have had no layoffs since I started. The layoffs that happened in the past were when they were flying leased airplanes. We now own all of the airplanes we fly. Supposedly the companies we are flying for want us to get more airplanes. It looks fairly stable for the moment.
But anything can happen. Anytime. With any airline.
1.and 2. International deadheadand carrier choice. It will normally be coach and unfortunatly you do not have a choice of carrier. Mostly US carriers. They are not always the cheapest either, they will not make you do 4 or 5 legs to save a nickel.
They try to get direct routing when possible. With the Cathay trips you will normally get Business class. Guys have gotten coach and first class, about even there.
It all depends on your bid line and where you will start you trips. It could be in the lower 48, Anchorage, Hong Kong, Europe, or Dubai. Three quarters start in lower 48 and Anchorage.
It does suck that you do not get DH pay the first year. I guess its the price you pay for home basing. Personnaly jumpseating sucks more than no DH pay for a year.
3. Southern Air uses their own instructors in the sims and for ground school.
All of the PFE's that teach the ground school are great. Very professional and will help you as much as you need, just ask.
4. Reason for leaving. I know some went to Focus for direct to captain and top of seniority list there.
Others were recalled or went to different passenger carriers.
I would guess the main reason would be quality of life. Being away from home for long periods is not fun. If I leave that will be why.
A factor could have been the growing pains in going from 1 to 4 airplanes in a short time. A bit caotic for a while there.
5. Pay during training. You will be paid for block time during OE.
They have always been punctual with pay.
6. Of the the nine check airmen there is only one that they sould get rid of.
The rest do such a good job it is embarassing to have this one ruin the reputation of the rest.
7. Upgrade time. When I was hired the company went from 1 airplane to 4 in just a few months. Captains were hired off the street. Not all that were hired as captains are flying as captains. With good reason they are particular who will sit in the left seat. The upgrades in class now have been here around a year and a half. Many factors will determine upgrade: attrition through retirement, resignations, adding to fleet, personal ability and recomendations.
8. Layoffs. They have had no layoffs since I started. The layoffs that happened in the past were when they were flying leased airplanes. We now own all of the airplanes we fly. Supposedly the companies we are flying for want us to get more airplanes. It looks fairly stable for the moment.
But anything can happen. Anytime. With any airline.
Last edited by 18Wheeler; 01-01-2006 at 06:42 AM.
01-01-2006, 06:42 AM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: B747 CA
Posts: 86
Southern Air
Snoopy questions:
1.and 2. International deadheadand carrier choice. It will normally be coach and unfortunatly you do not have a choice of carrier. Mostly US carriers. They are not always the cheapest either, they will not make you do 4 or 5 legs to save a nickel.
They try to get direct routing when possible. With the Cathay trips you will normally get Business class. Guys have gotten coach and first class, about even there.
It all depends on your bid line and where you will start you trips. It could be in the lower 48, Anchorage, Hong Kong, Europe, or Dubai. Three quarters start in lower 48 and Anchorage.
It does suck that you do not get DH pay the first year. I guess its the price you pay for home basing. Personnaly jumpseating sucks more than no DH pay for a year.
3. Southern Air uses their own instructors in the sims and for ground school.
All of the PFE's that teach the ground school are great. Very professional and will help you as much as you need, just ask.
4. Reason for leaving. I know some went to Focus for direct to captain and top of seniority list there.
Others were recalled or went to different passenger carriers.
I would guess the main reason would be quality of life. Being away from home for long periods is not fun. If I leave that will be why.
5. Pay during training. You will be paid for block time during OE.
They have always been punctual with pay.
6. Of the the nine check airmen there is only one that they sould get rid of.
The rest do such a good job it is embarassing to have this one ruin the reputation of the rest.
7. Upgrade time. When I was hired the company went from 1 airplane to 4 in just a few months. Captains were hired off the street. Not all that were hired as captains are flying as captains. With good reason they are particular who will sit in the left seat. The upgrades in class now have been here around a year and a half. Many factors will determine upgrade: attrition through retirement, resignations, adding to fleet, personal ability and recomendations.
8. Layoffs. They have had no layoffs since I started. The layoffs that happened in the past were when they were flying leased airplanes. We now own all of the airplanes we fly. Supposedly the companies we are flying for want us to get more airplanes. It looks fairly stable for the moment.
But anything can happen. Anytime. With any airline.
1.and 2. International deadheadand carrier choice. It will normally be coach and unfortunatly you do not have a choice of carrier. Mostly US carriers. They are not always the cheapest either, they will not make you do 4 or 5 legs to save a nickel.
They try to get direct routing when possible. With the Cathay trips you will normally get Business class. Guys have gotten coach and first class, about even there.
It all depends on your bid line and where you will start you trips. It could be in the lower 48, Anchorage, Hong Kong, Europe, or Dubai. Three quarters start in lower 48 and Anchorage.
It does suck that you do not get DH pay the first year. I guess its the price you pay for home basing. Personnaly jumpseating sucks more than no DH pay for a year.
3. Southern Air uses their own instructors in the sims and for ground school.
All of the PFE's that teach the ground school are great. Very professional and will help you as much as you need, just ask.
4. Reason for leaving. I know some went to Focus for direct to captain and top of seniority list there.
Others were recalled or went to different passenger carriers.
I would guess the main reason would be quality of life. Being away from home for long periods is not fun. If I leave that will be why.
5. Pay during training. You will be paid for block time during OE.
They have always been punctual with pay.
6. Of the the nine check airmen there is only one that they sould get rid of.
The rest do such a good job it is embarassing to have this one ruin the reputation of the rest.
7. Upgrade time. When I was hired the company went from 1 airplane to 4 in just a few months. Captains were hired off the street. Not all that were hired as captains are flying as captains. With good reason they are particular who will sit in the left seat. The upgrades in class now have been here around a year and a half. Many factors will determine upgrade: attrition through retirement, resignations, adding to fleet, personal ability and recomendations.
8. Layoffs. They have had no layoffs since I started. The layoffs that happened in the past were when they were flying leased airplanes. We now own all of the airplanes we fly. Supposedly the companies we are flying for want us to get more airplanes. It looks fairly stable for the moment.
But anything can happen. Anytime. With any airline.
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