Originally Posted by dutch747

10 years I've been on APC I've never seen this before. So are you a lawyer hired to be the company advocate on these forum boards? Is the company really that concerned about what they read here?

You should come clean and tell us who you are so we know who we are dealing with.

Originally Posted by Code Red

Fellow alum just text me. He's five year FO.

I guess the line pilots have their own private forum. Says up to 10% furlough. Keep those apps current!

Originally Posted by sandrich

How do they go from hiring 700-800 this year to furloughing 10%. Something smells funny there

Originally Posted by RyeMex

Can anyone else on here verify the new hire classes being cancelled?

Originally Posted by longhauler

I was a --- 2015 hire on the 747. At the time, Atlas was a very interesting choice--I was fresh out of the Air Force (---- hours in Military Aircraft), Atlas picked me up with a pending contract negotiation that they were claiming would rival American's, upgrade in 5 years or less and the 747. What's not to love? I drank the Kool Aid and was all about Atlas--so much so that I delayed my availability at United and Delta by about 5 years. That is, I kept my UAL and DAL apps in the airlineapps system, but put 2019 or so in the "availability box." I wanted to give Atlas a fair shake, and see if the management was going to be true to their word about negotiations that December.

Fast forward to late October 2015. I had busted my 74 type ride in June, but other than that had an uneventful first 6 months at Atlas. Halfway through a trip in October, United sent me an email indicating that while they knew my availability was in 2019, they were interested in interviewing me at the earliest opportunity whenever I was within 6 months of availability. All I had to do was send the email. Keep in mind I had my apps in with United for well over a year at this point, and the ONLY change I made to them was adding my employment at Atlas and checking the part 121 box on the airline apps website. I even added the 747 bust, and that didn't deter them. Ironically, the day after I received the email from United, I received an email from the ExCo outlining the beginning of the terrible pace at which the company has been conduction negotiations since late last year, and continue to do so. That made a tough decision easy, and I interviewed at United in December of 2015 and accepted conditional employment a week later. I could have started in January of 2016, but delayed my class date till 5 April so I could get married and go through training with no interruptions.

I put my 2 weeks notice in with ANC ACP on - ----- 2016, and received no response. I then sent the same email to System CP on the 8th, with a final employment date of -- ----- 16. He called me within 5 minutes of me sending the email, and we had a conversation that lasted about 10 minutes. The synopsis follows, keep in mind it's been a couple weeks and I don't remember everything verbatim, but can recall the general tone:

Overall, Mr. System CP was friendly, but businesslike. He asked me why I was leaving. I responded that Atlas pay and benefits was substandard, my quality of life was suffering, and I wanted to actually have a retirement in 35 years when I retired. I said I was young and had a new family to watch out for, and Atlas simply wasn't a good fit anymore. I concluded with "Also, I have no faith that Atlas management will conduct contract negotiations in good faith, additionally I don't see a new contract happening under any circumstances any time soon." His response came in 2 parts, first he said he understood why I'm leaving, and that he did the same thing when he went to Northwest back in the 80's. He also mentioned the contract, and tried to twist the negotiation SNAFU into being the union's fault. He indicated that he hadn't seen a union this aggressive and "chest-thumping" since the 80's, and that the union will have to start playing more fairly if they wanted to get something meaningful done. I didn't see any point in arguing with him, so I just listened. I then told him that he might want to be careful about his pilot numbers, and relayed my UAL hiring story above, indicating that the major's are headhunting even guys like me with low hours and a busted type on their record. He didn't really have a substantial response to this. He then reminded me that UAL could easily furlough me if the economy has a downturn because their pilot numbers are so large, while Atlas most likely wouldn't. I responded that yes, this was a risk, and a reason why Atlas was so attractive to me was the business model was more recession-proof than a normal airline, however this was a risk I was willing to take based on the potential gain of long-term employment at United Airlines. He ended the conversation on some notes about my last few days at Atlas (I had called in sick and then taken vacation for my wedding), and we wrapped the call up.

Edited for names and dates

Originally Posted by sandrich

After a few inquiries, I'm going to infer that it's because of the insane backup of IOE. I know someone from a Nov 747 class who still hasn't even touched the airplane yet... 3 classes, ~30 guys each, 3 months wait for IOE. That's $400,000 that Atlas is shelling out for guys to just sit at home. I'm sure there's more.

As for the rumors of furlough, I'm willing to bet it's just a threat against the union.

Originally Posted by seoceancrosser

I'm willing to bet they won't be hiring the 700-800 pilots since Amazon chose to go with ATSG instead of AAWW. As any outsider looking in can see that the pilot workforce at Atlas is not a stable or reliable one. Making us more like Southern won't accomplish that goal either. Any other potential customer looking for large regular lift will see the same thing. It looks like Atlas management has made the decision to focus their resources on arguing with us as opposed obtaining new business. My opinion from where I sit.

Originally Posted by 744driver

Below is my opinion only...

Some of the Sim Check Airmen, DEs, and even instructors are company hacks...they feel that they are doing god's work (meaning the Atlas god!!) by sending guys to the line that are "worthy" of flying our 747s. (Are you freaking kidding me?)

They make up their own ****** in checkrides and until recently there was nobody to push back. I'd like to think the new head of our TC is cleaning house of that mentality. It seems to be going in the right direction.

But the disparity between training events and checking events is very real. And therein is the problem if a trainee (even highly experienced line pilots) cannot handle the curve balls that will surely be hurled at him/her in the 747 program.

Good luck to those making their way through the 747 program...it is NOT easy, and made complicated by the multiple instructor changes, and the resultant differences or gaps in the program.