Atlas Air Hiring
04-10-2016, 11:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
The best response to someone trying to stir up a hornet's nest is just to ignore them. Pitching rocks back in the direction of the nest just stirs things up to no purpose. It's a forum, of course and all opinions should be welcome. That doesn't mean that all opinions should be agreed with. That's OK and we're all best served when the issues are honestly and intelligently debated. When the rhetoric starts to become personal though, this valuable forum once again devolves into a version of Flightinfo.com.
Namaste
PS- feel free to PM me for questions, info, etc.
04-10-2016, 06:40 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 747
Posts: 1,290
To those job seekers who do not like the negative reports about the current status at Atlas,
If you have had a chance to follow the history of this thread for a while (and if you haven't, I would suggest doing so), you will find that this is one of the most civil and informative airline hiring sites anywhere. I successfully used it to get hired at Atlas as did many of the current posters. We all enjoyed "paying forward" the assistance we got from the early contributors here, and celebrated the successes of those that we all helped.
The announcement about buying Southern Air was met with guarded optimism and we continued to promote Atlas as a good place to work. Our union had actually begun contract negotiations and the pilot group looked forward to a difficult but successful fight for contract parity with our peers.
The reason that the tone of this thread has taken such a negative turn is a direct reaction to Atlas's recently announced commitment to merge our contract with Southern Air's contract. This contract merger is a move to avoid normal "section 6" negotiations where we had expected to make substantial gains to put us on par with other wide body operators that have 50+ jets. By merging, or amalgamating, the contracts, Atlas avoids the usual negotiating leverage that a union would have during contract talks and will result in a grossly sub-par contract. This tactic is so obviously anti-labor and is such an insult to the decades of incredibly difficult flying that this pilot group has done to build Atlas into the successful company that it is now, that we have become completely disgusted with Atlas Air. We are fed up with constantly having to fix company shortcomings and prevent service failures where Atlas continuously drops the ball whether it be arranging our own transportation in foreign lands, creating our own paperwork, extending work hours to make logistical arrangements, finding hotels where no arrangements had been made, avoiding illegal schedule assignments and changes, catching payroll discrepancies, etc. etc., the list goes on and on. We put up with this in the past, grudgingly, because of the promise that Atlas was going to grow into a career destination and reward its employees accordingly with industry standard salary, retirement, and work rules.
Atlas has now proven that it determined to eliminate that future.
If successful, new hire pilots will NOT have a salary, a retirement, or work rules that are anywhere near what one would expect from an airline with the financial size and success that Atlas now enjoys.
So all the p*ssing and moaning is really a continuation of our efforts to "pay it forward". At this point I, for one, would feel dishonest if I were to promote Atlas as a career destination or even as a stepping stone on to the majors. I feel obligated to tell it like it is and let aspiring pilots have full disclosure about this job. I caution you on several fronts: 1. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because you could fly a 747. You should NEVER chase a job because for the equipment. A jet is a jet, plain and simple. if you want something awesome to fly, get a job at American and buy a Pitts. 2. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because of the destinations. 3. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because of quick upgrade times. They may seem quick now (if you call 5 years quick), but that is an anomaly that will not last. 4. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because of the stability. Atlas's current negotiating tactic should be warning enough that they have zero loyalty towards their employees.
The next question will be "Why don't you just leave?". Good one. Many, many of us are leaving just as quickly as we can and many, many of us are trying to leave but it is clearly easier for some than it is for others (for a myriad of reasons).
So, I'm not going to shut up and quit whining because I feel that to do so would be a disservice to pilots looking for a job (and, I'm an airline pilot for god's sake - I'm supposed to whine!), and I AM looking for another job. In the mean time while I am here, I am going to FIGHT for a better contract.
8
If you have had a chance to follow the history of this thread for a while (and if you haven't, I would suggest doing so), you will find that this is one of the most civil and informative airline hiring sites anywhere. I successfully used it to get hired at Atlas as did many of the current posters. We all enjoyed "paying forward" the assistance we got from the early contributors here, and celebrated the successes of those that we all helped.
The announcement about buying Southern Air was met with guarded optimism and we continued to promote Atlas as a good place to work. Our union had actually begun contract negotiations and the pilot group looked forward to a difficult but successful fight for contract parity with our peers.
The reason that the tone of this thread has taken such a negative turn is a direct reaction to Atlas's recently announced commitment to merge our contract with Southern Air's contract. This contract merger is a move to avoid normal "section 6" negotiations where we had expected to make substantial gains to put us on par with other wide body operators that have 50+ jets. By merging, or amalgamating, the contracts, Atlas avoids the usual negotiating leverage that a union would have during contract talks and will result in a grossly sub-par contract. This tactic is so obviously anti-labor and is such an insult to the decades of incredibly difficult flying that this pilot group has done to build Atlas into the successful company that it is now, that we have become completely disgusted with Atlas Air. We are fed up with constantly having to fix company shortcomings and prevent service failures where Atlas continuously drops the ball whether it be arranging our own transportation in foreign lands, creating our own paperwork, extending work hours to make logistical arrangements, finding hotels where no arrangements had been made, avoiding illegal schedule assignments and changes, catching payroll discrepancies, etc. etc., the list goes on and on. We put up with this in the past, grudgingly, because of the promise that Atlas was going to grow into a career destination and reward its employees accordingly with industry standard salary, retirement, and work rules.
Atlas has now proven that it determined to eliminate that future.
If successful, new hire pilots will NOT have a salary, a retirement, or work rules that are anywhere near what one would expect from an airline with the financial size and success that Atlas now enjoys.
So all the p*ssing and moaning is really a continuation of our efforts to "pay it forward". At this point I, for one, would feel dishonest if I were to promote Atlas as a career destination or even as a stepping stone on to the majors. I feel obligated to tell it like it is and let aspiring pilots have full disclosure about this job. I caution you on several fronts: 1. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because you could fly a 747. You should NEVER chase a job because for the equipment. A jet is a jet, plain and simple. if you want something awesome to fly, get a job at American and buy a Pitts. 2. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because of the destinations. 3. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because of quick upgrade times. They may seem quick now (if you call 5 years quick), but that is an anomaly that will not last. 4. Don't aspire to fly at Atlas because of the stability. Atlas's current negotiating tactic should be warning enough that they have zero loyalty towards their employees.
The next question will be "Why don't you just leave?". Good one. Many, many of us are leaving just as quickly as we can and many, many of us are trying to leave but it is clearly easier for some than it is for others (for a myriad of reasons).
So, I'm not going to shut up and quit whining because I feel that to do so would be a disservice to pilots looking for a job (and, I'm an airline pilot for god's sake - I'm supposed to whine!), and I AM looking for another job. In the mean time while I am here, I am going to FIGHT for a better contract.
8
04-11-2016, 05:20 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: SA2000
Posts: 62
Excellent post 8. Sad, very sad. Hope it turns around. I went through the World mess and had hopes for Atlas but found something else. Still thought about trying Atlas but now, no thanks. I'll stay where I am.
04-11-2016, 05:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: 747 CA
Posts: 344
And let's not forget that they took our profit sharing away.
Captains used to get $20k and FOs $10K every year. It eased the pain of all the nonsense that we deal with.
The worst part is that our management is so sick that they believe their own lies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-0gxca-VxM
Captains used to get $20k and FOs $10K every year. It eased the pain of all the nonsense that we deal with.
The worst part is that our management is so sick that they believe their own lies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-0gxca-VxM
04-11-2016, 07:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 293
Long time reader but felt compelled to finally join to thank 8 for that post.
I'm an Atlas Captain and I have never seen morale tank at any airline like it has just done here at Atlas. Management think that because you have a pilot certificate you are qualified to move heavy metal to anywhere on the planet straight out of the box and deserve nothing but contempt. They have no concept of what it actually takes to do this safely. Many of our experienced and qualified pilots, me included are running for the exit now and we had no intentions of doing so a few short weeks ago. The turnover and experience gap Atlas will face combined with the incredibly low morale amongst the crewmembers has me very concerned that there will be a smoking hole somewhere on this planet with an Atlas tail sticking out of it sometime in the not too distant future. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.
I'm an Atlas Captain and I have never seen morale tank at any airline like it has just done here at Atlas. Management think that because you have a pilot certificate you are qualified to move heavy metal to anywhere on the planet straight out of the box and deserve nothing but contempt. They have no concept of what it actually takes to do this safely. Many of our experienced and qualified pilots, me included are running for the exit now and we had no intentions of doing so a few short weeks ago. The turnover and experience gap Atlas will face combined with the incredibly low morale amongst the crewmembers has me very concerned that there will be a smoking hole somewhere on this planet with an Atlas tail sticking out of it sometime in the not too distant future. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.
Last edited by Atrasaty; 04-11-2016 at 08:14 AM.
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