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Old 03-11-2010, 02:59 PM   #1  
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Default Sidestep Approach Minimums

If you are coming in on an ILS to parallel runways, and you have to sidestep to the parallel runway, would you use straight in DA or circle to land MDA?
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:11 PM   #2  
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Why not use the side step minimums?
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:21 PM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjaxpilot View Post
If you are coming in on an ILS to parallel runways, and you have to sidestep to the parallel runway, would you use straight in DA or circle to land MDA?

The runways need to be within 1200' of each other in order to sidestep. Otherwise, technically it's a circle. If side step mins are published, you can use them as well. Hope that helps.
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:37 PM   #4  
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AIM 5-4-19 outlines the Side-Step Maneuver. Practically speaking, you would shoot the approach to the straight-in nonprecision minimums (the MDA) regardless of the approach (PA, APV or NPA) and side-step whenever visual is made with the parallel runway. Very specifically, you do not use the circling minimums if the parallel runway is within 1200 ft. (This illustrates the point of the side-step manuever, to take advantage of straight-in minimums to the parallel runway rather than the higher circling mins.)
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:28 AM   #5  
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Thanks for the help!
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Old 03-12-2010, 06:02 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustee View Post

AIM 5-4-19 outlines the Side-Step Maneuver.

TRUE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustee View Post

Practically speaking, you would shoot the approach to the straight-in nonprecision minimums (the MDA) regardless of the approach (PA, APV or NPA) ...

FALSE.

A Side-Step Maneuver is flown to Side-Step Maneuver Minimums. Those landing minimums will be based on non-precision approach criteria, and therefore higher than the precision minimums, but they will normally be lower than published circling minimums. However, that does not mean the Non-Precision Minimums for the Straight-In approach can be used as the Side-Step Maneuver Minimums.


Quote:
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... and side-step whenever visual is made with the parallel runway.

TRUE. Pilots are expected to commence the side-step maneuver as soon as possible after the runway or runway environment is in sight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustee View Post

Very specifically, you do not use the circling minimums if the parallel runway is within 1200 ft.

FALSE.

The minimums you use does not depend on the distance between the runways. The minimums you use depends ONLY on the approach clearance you receive. If you are cleared for the LOC 23R, you use the non-precision straight-in minimums for the LOC 23R approach. If you are cleared the LOC 23R Side-step 23L, you use the non-precision Side-step minimums for LOC 23R. If you are cleared the LOC 23R Circle to land 23L, you use the circling minimums for LOC 23R.

To repeat, you use the minimums for the approach clearance you receive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustee View Post

(This illustrates the point of the side-step manuever, to take advantage of straight-in minimums to the parallel runway rather than the higher circling mins.)

FALSE.

The Side-step maneuver usually has minimums lower than the published circling minimums, but it does not use the straight-in minimums for the approach flown. The Side-step maneuver has Side-Step Maneuver Minimums (AIM 5-4-20.d.). The same maneuver without Side-Step Maneuver Minimums is called a "circle to land" and uses CIRCLING MINIMUMS.



Here's an example of an approach with Side-step minimums: NEWARK LIBERTY INTL (EWR) ILS or LOC RWY 4R

Notice the minimums for "SIDESTEP RWY 4L". They are lower than the circling minimums, but higher than the S-LOC 4R minimums. The same is true for NEWARK LIBERTY INTL (EWR) ILS or LOC RWY 4L SIDESTEP RWY 4R.


Look at DFW and LAX for examples of approaches where the Side-Step MDAs are significantly higher than the LOC MDAs, but no circling minima are published for the same approach.


Once again, for clarity, a Side-Step Maneuver uses Side-Step Maneuver Minimums. Without Side-Step Maneuver Minimums, there can be no Side-Step Maneuver.






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Old 03-12-2010, 03:56 PM   #7  
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I am under the impression that if side-step minimums are not published, but the runway configuration is such that it still allows for the side-step, then the minimums used are those of the straight-in nonprecision to the parallel runway. (If side-step minimums are published, obviously you would fly those, as you have pointed out.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyC
The minimums you use does not depend on the distance between the runways. The minimums you use depends ONLY on the approach clearance you receive. If you are cleared for the LOC 23R, you use the non-precision straight-in minimums for the LOC 23R approach. If you are cleared the LOC 23R Side-step 23L, you use the non-precision Side-step minimums for LOC 23R. If you are cleared the LOC 23R Circle to land 23L, you use the circling minimums for LOC 23R.

To repeat, you use the minimums for the approach clearance you receive.
Thanks for the correction and clarification. Yes, if you are cleared to circle, you would use circling minimums. I meant to say that the point of the side-step maneuver is so lower than circling minimums may be used (either as published side-step mins or as the straight-in nonprecision mins). Otherwise, what would be it's purpose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyC
Without Side-Step Maneuver Minimums, there can be no Side-Step Maneuver.
Again, it was my understanding that you can still side-step even if there are not side-step minimums published on the IAP. Maybe there is a source that can corroborate your statement?
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Old 03-12-2010, 04:41 PM   #8  
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While I look for such a source, let me ask: Can you circle without circling minimums?

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Old 03-12-2010, 04:54 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyC View Post
While I look for such a source, let me ask: Can you circle without circling minimums?

<and why are there no emoticons in this Forum?>

<wink emoticon goes here>




.
The EEftPP reference book uses AIM 5-4-18 and states:

Quote:
1. ATC may authorize a nonprecision approach procedure which serves either one of the parallel runways that are separated by ,1200 feet or less followed by a straight-in landing on the adjacent runway.
2. Aircraft that will execute a side-step maneuver will be cleared for a specified nonprecision approach and landing on the adjacent parallel runway. Example "cleared ILS runway 7 left appraoch, side-step to runway 7 right." Pilots are expected to commence the side-step maneuver as soon as possible after the runway or runway environment is in sight.
3. Landing minimums to the adjacent runway will be based on nonprecision criteria and therefore higher than the precision minimums to the primary runway, but will normally be lower than the published circling minimums
Using the above reference (AIM), it seems to say that if the runways are within 1,200 fet of each other then you can shoot the NP approach using the NP mins for the one you are shooting, then plan to side-step and do so ASAP. I assume this means then that you could shoot this approach and plan to side-step without actual side-step minimums. Also assuming that you would have to have separate side-step mins if the runways are further than said 1,200 feet apart and may be the case in the examples posted above (I didn't look).

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Old 03-12-2010, 05:06 PM   #10  
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I agree with Rustee and USMCFLYR that published side-step minimums are NOT required to execute a side-step maneuver. But the question of which minimums to use is a good one. USMCFLYR suggests using the NP mins for the approach you are using, making perfect sense.

"Compliance with minimum altitudes associated with stepdown fixes is expected even after the side-step maneuver is initiated."

So the minimums change, depending on which runway you are lined-up with. Perhaps the only time this is not true is when side-step minimums are published, for whatever reason.

Last edited by AKASHA; 03-12-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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