For the younger guys
10-17-2019 | 10:41 AM
#61
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10-17-2019 | 01:20 PM
#62
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
[QUOTE=Name User;2906646]
Don't confuse lack of certification (on paper) for lack of ability. The 757 is limited to a 15 knot xwind, but can do 40. But it wasn't certified as that so there is that limitation, just as an example. Another one, auto land capability allows aircraft to land in conditions humans cannot.
You're completely missing the point here. We don't need pilots to fly airplanes anymore. Computers are better at it and safer. They don't break limitations. Pilots have already been removed from the equation in Airbus logic. Boeing will follow suit after this MAX fiasco.
Then why are we still employed? Here's why...
Most pilot "manual labor" has been automated already. But you still judgement and adult supervision, and that cannot be automated with any known technology (science fiction AI does not exist, and nobody knows how to make it).
Reliable, sat based, high bandwidth, non-jammable, non-hackable, redundant data links needed for SAFE remote piloting costs more than pilots. Especially in the short term, absolutely nobody is going to spend a few trillion dollars to build a satcom network that might allow them to eliminate pilots in a few decades.
Since you need the adult onboard anyway, it's cheaper to use the pilot as a layer of redundancy for things like AP/FD/FMS and systems management. Current planes do NOT have anywhere near the redundancy that would be needed for unmanned (either autonomous or remote).
The thing comparable to an unmanned airliner is a deep-space probe... but those are managed remotely by a TEAM of engineers around the clock. And sometimes they fail anyway.
Don't confuse lack of certification (on paper) for lack of ability. The 757 is limited to a 15 knot xwind, but can do 40. But it wasn't certified as that so there is that limitation, just as an example. Another one, auto land capability allows aircraft to land in conditions humans cannot.
You're completely missing the point here. We don't need pilots to fly airplanes anymore. Computers are better at it and safer. They don't break limitations. Pilots have already been removed from the equation in Airbus logic. Boeing will follow suit after this MAX fiasco.
Most pilot "manual labor" has been automated already. But you still judgement and adult supervision, and that cannot be automated with any known technology (science fiction AI does not exist, and nobody knows how to make it).
Reliable, sat based, high bandwidth, non-jammable, non-hackable, redundant data links needed for SAFE remote piloting costs more than pilots. Especially in the short term, absolutely nobody is going to spend a few trillion dollars to build a satcom network that might allow them to eliminate pilots in a few decades.
Since you need the adult onboard anyway, it's cheaper to use the pilot as a layer of redundancy for things like AP/FD/FMS and systems management. Current planes do NOT have anywhere near the redundancy that would be needed for unmanned (either autonomous or remote).
The thing comparable to an unmanned airliner is a deep-space probe... but those are managed remotely by a TEAM of engineers around the clock. And sometimes they fail anyway.
10-17-2019 | 06:48 PM
#63
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Rick I think you make some great points. Part of the security in operating aircraft nowadays is that there are no external links that can be hacked and control the aircraft.
There has been an instance where a passenger hacked in via the entertainment system and was able to control the aircraft indirectly by changing thrust on the engines. That was on an A320.
There has been an instance where a passenger hacked in via the entertainment system and was able to control the aircraft indirectly by changing thrust on the engines. That was on an A320.
10-17-2019 | 07:04 PM
#64
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Rick I think you make some great points. Part of the security in operating aircraft nowadays is that there are no external links that can be hacked and control the aircraft.
There has been an instance where a passenger hacked in via the entertainment system and was able to control the aircraft indirectly by changing thrust on the engines. That was on an A320.
There has been an instance where a passenger hacked in via the entertainment system and was able to control the aircraft indirectly by changing thrust on the engines. That was on an A320.
With access but no knowledge, you could start deleting things until the plane malfunctioned. But taking control of anything would be harder.
10-17-2019 | 07:14 PM
#65
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From: 777 Captain in Training
Ok so picture this. You select the ILS or RNAV X approach to an airport. The box loads it and calculates exactly where the aircraft needs to configure based on present position. You tell it to go direct to the IAF and it does everything, including configuring on schedule. It lands. It taxis to the gate. What skills did the pilot need? Even the approach can be selected by the computer automatically based on METAR data or a digital broadcast from the station that broadcasts to aircraft which approach should be used.
While that sounds far fetched so did being able to pull full aft on the elevator and not stall a couple decades ago. Or being able to tune a radio yourself. Or engines that start themselves. My point in all of this is technology has caught up to us.
As far as auto lands go yes you are correct, aircraft are artificially limited (generally by the FAA here) by current certification standards. That doesn't mean they are not capable of higher limits, don't confuse the two. And don't think that will stop future progress.
This is a pretty quick read about using AI and machine learning to execute go arounds automatically.
http://www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/h.baomar/files/RP4.pdf
While that sounds far fetched so did being able to pull full aft on the elevator and not stall a couple decades ago. Or being able to tune a radio yourself. Or engines that start themselves. My point in all of this is technology has caught up to us.
As far as auto lands go yes you are correct, aircraft are artificially limited (generally by the FAA here) by current certification standards. That doesn't mean they are not capable of higher limits, don't confuse the two. And don't think that will stop future progress.
This is a pretty quick read about using AI and machine learning to execute go arounds automatically.
http://www0.cs.ucl.ac.uk/staff/h.baomar/files/RP4.pdf
10-18-2019 | 03:58 AM
#66
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From: Pilot
10-26-2019 | 02:06 AM
#67
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All I ask for when we go to zero pilots and 2 robots up front is that they also partake in guard frequency shenanigans.
“You’re on guard P2G6...”
“So are you, R2D2!”
“Don’t give me lip robot, or I’ll shove this mike so far up your USB port you’ll have Input/Output errors for a week!”
“You’re on guard P2G6...”
“So are you, R2D2!”
“Don’t give me lip robot, or I’ll shove this mike so far up your USB port you’ll have Input/Output errors for a week!”
10-26-2019 | 02:14 AM
#68
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Also I want full beotch sessions during robot seniority integrations for future airline mergers. And beotching in general about pilot stuff.
“I’ve been waiting for a decade to go in for my upgrades, but ever since we passed computer age 95, that effin Captain Commodore just wont retire!”
“Yeah, well, at least Captain Windows retired. He flew trial flights with humans, that freakin scab!”
“I’ve been waiting for a decade to go in for my upgrades, but ever since we passed computer age 95, that effin Captain Commodore just wont retire!”
“Yeah, well, at least Captain Windows retired. He flew trial flights with humans, that freakin scab!”
10-30-2019 | 08:36 AM
#69
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10-30-2019 | 12:01 PM
#70
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Fast forward to 3:30
https://youtu.be/d-ruFmgTpqA
Next they link it in with ADSB info and presto you have full autonomy. The system selects the runway based on digital weather data like my post above suggested.
https://youtu.be/d-ruFmgTpqA
Next they link it in with ADSB info and presto you have full autonomy. The system selects the runway based on digital weather data like my post above suggested.
Last edited by Name User; 10-30-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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