Pete7562

After 24 years of active-duty, I am starting to think about what I am going to do when I grow up. I will retire as a Col in the next 1-2 years, just shy of 50, with ~2500 hours; mostly CH-46E helicopter time (night, combat, instrument, instructor, etc). I enjoy flying, but was never a junkie. Friends of mine that left early (w/ FW time) are recommending I make a run at a major due to the projected hiring trends. My wife and I would happily move to HOU, DFW, or ATL. I am starting to look into the sponsored "feeder" transition programs that are supposed to set you up for a regional.

1) Does anyone have any experience with this route that can talk about true cost of transition training {would prefer to save my GI Bill)?

2) I will have a pension as a safety net, some savings, and a wife that is willing to live "efficiently" for a short while, but I would really want to be making $60k within a year or two and $100k+ within 3-5. Realistic?

3) My wife and I have an infant that I want to be more present for that I could be with my older daughters. In a projected ~15 year career, could I get hired by a major and become senior enough to have sufficient control of my schedule for good quality of life? I would define that as 1-2 weeks per month at home and/or recovering at my base most nights (sleeping in my own bed).

4) Are there airlines that are more "friendly" to military than others?

5) Where in this route am I assuming significant risk?

Personal experience is preferred to hearsay, but any insights are appreciated!

FlightLife

Good day.

My response on here is going to be most likely less than helpful, as I do not have airline experience. I'm a helicopter guy as well...was a CH-46E crewchief and now civilian heli pilot.
There seems to be a lot of these military pilot to airline pilot programs popping up, mainly in the regionals. From the sounds of it, some will cover the cost to get your fixed-wing add-on ratings if you don't already have them. Take a look at some of the other forums on here in the regional category if you haven't done so already. APTAP.org might be another good resource as well.

Good luck!

Otterbox

Go to one of the American Airlines Wholly Owned regionals. They all age an RTP program where they pay upto $23k to get you the fixed wing ratings you need to be an airline pilot as well as the atp-ctp course complete.

Each has a flow ranging from 5 (Piedmont) to 9 (PSA) years and in between (Envoy). Best thing about the flow is it forces attrition from the top of the seniority group thus allowing folks to upgrade quicker and take resume building jobs to beef up applications to the majors.

You could Have a 10-12 year career at a legacy and finish up as a senior FO or junior narrow body Captain or wide body FO.

Allegedly SWA has some of the best schedule flexibility.

Pete7562

Thanks FL, and semper fi!

Otterbox - great info. Thanks. Not sure I understand flow through entirely. Does that just mean you are guaranteed an interview after so long with the associated major (and they promise certain quotas of new hires)? If I came up via an AA regional out if DFW, I presume I could still apply at another carrier such as SWA at DAL once I hit their mins in a couple years?

rickair7777

The flow is a "guaranteed" job, not a guaranteed interview. Quotes used because such flow programs have a very mixed history of reliability (by mixed I mean 90% bad). But they seem to be tracking well so far in today's hiring boom.

You can apply anywhere else, at any time. There may be training bonds associated with bonuses or RW to FW transition programs, but you could pay those off if you thought seniority at a major would be a better trade for the cash.

rickair7777

For clarity, I assume you mean friendly to retired military? Essentially all love ex-mil who are not participating in the reserves (I know USMC retirees, unlike some other services, cannot do reserves and would not normally be able to volunteer for temp recall).

A few small mom-and-pop regionals may have shied away from older retired mil in the past, but in this climate I don't think anybody would hesitate.

With you they know about how long you'll have to stick around to get your competitive FW time, so they know their ROI. Regionals today will hire mil guys who will likely be around for only 12-18 months.

Not much. Really what's on the table is six years of AD pay, bennies, and retirement credit (assuming no stars on the horizon). If you're going to retire now regardless, you won't lose much by taking a swing through the regionals for a year or three. Worst case, you decide you don't like airlines and go get a regular job (don't base that decision on regional new-hire experience, majors are significantly better).

If it's a choice between staying for 30 or airlines, that's a little bit harder.

But legacy hiring is only beginning to ramp up so unless you have significant skeletons you should be a shoe-in. Six years is a LOT of airline seniority to give up, given the current and projected rate of hiring. Rumor is that big-three are loosening recency standards for O6+, giving them credit for good performance in duties which limited flying opportunities.

Hiring today is largely limited by simulator capacity, ie they can only move people around and hire them as fast as they can train them.

Pete7562

Exactly, Rick.I have heard but not confirmed that some airlines (Hawaiian?) count helicopter time against total time. I am not sure how much that matters. Probably more important is how much they weight military experience when it comes to hiring or assignments not based solely on seniority (if there are any). I've read a few posts that indicate that it means a lot, but I understand that could be by someone stuck in a regional that is bitter about direct hire of military to majors.

Thanks for the reply. Again, very helpful. I've heard enough to start some detailed research/planning. I'd certainly welcome further feedback, especially on questions 1 & 3.

Anyone done the RTP that will share their experience?
Does a central domicile like DFW make you more likely to get short trips that terminate or have overnight layovers at home?

Otterbox

United seems to like retired Military, especially since they won’t have to on Military leave in most cases. JetBlue and Hawaiian give credit for helicopter time. Everyone likes Military, but help hours aren’t held in the same esteem as anything fixed wing at most places (some specifically tell you not to count them).

You seem to have a DFW fixation... Envoy is the place for you to look at. Be warned they’re currently having a lot of issues with their RTP program. They will hopefully clear up but I wouldn’t count on retirement on the start of your terminal leave date and having an airline paycheck so supplement your pension for a decent stint of time,.

To learn more checkout the RTP/MTP threads in the Envoy, PSA and Piedmont Airlines sections. They’re all very similar in terms of what they offer since they’re all backed by AA.

Pete7562

American has the only RTP program that I have seen so far. Dallas/Ft Worth seems to have the most major airline options. I've moved enough times that I am not keen to do it again when I seek to sign on with a major. I'd be equally open to IAH or ATL.

I'll check out the other threads to examine.the issues with Envoy. But bearing this in mind, what do you consider a reasonable stint of time to be earning an income from when I would start the program?

Otterbox

Texas offers AA, Spirit, SWA and UAL so plenty of options for employment.

If you start RTP on day 1 of terminal leave, probably 6-9 months or so after terminal leave ends unless the current delays are alleviated or Envoy decides to use additional flight school partners for RTP.