2StgTurbine

What federal application asks about your sexual preference? You keep bringing that up as if it is a thing.

JohnBurke

I can tell you that certain USFS locations have a disproportionately high number of homosexual employees. In fact, at some locations...all of them. I'm sure it's a coincidence.

This isn't to say that the agency is predisposed, but most certainly certain hiring units to look for a particular demographic, and I've personally seen people forced out who didn't fit that demographic, and I can also tell you that considerable hiring goes on specific to an individual, with vacancy announcements designed and tailored for that one person, or person(s). This is not unique to one particular agency.

Conversely, I had a phone interview many years ago with an operator who asked in if I smoked. I replied that I didn't. Then I was asked if I was married. No. If I planned to be. Maybe, at some point. Did I have had a girlfriend. I replied negative. Did I plan to get one? Maybe.

Did I know why the employer was asking? Yes, I replied. You want to know if I'm flexible and able to move quickly, and the answer is yes.

No, he said. I just want to know if you're gay. "I don't hire smokers or fags." Once he was satisfied with what he wanted to hear, I was invited for an in person interview.

Isolated in the industry? No. Not so often as overt, but preference plays a part, regardless of the lip service to equality that may exist. Like I said, we could go on all day, and tomorrow, and the next. It's not a small, or limited thing, nor is it something that occurs rarely in the industry.

2StgTurbine

To be fair you are in a very specialized area of the industry that is small enough to get away with that kind of stuff.

This thread started because people were criticizing hiring practices at major airlines. Those companies have too many people involved in the hiring process for discriminatory hiring practices to be formalized.

That is a common practice in part 91 flight departments and even outside of aviation. While it sucks for you as an outsider applying it also sucks if you are a manager and you have an internal you know would be great for the job but legal tells you that you have to interview people outside of the company before you can hire the one you want.

2StgTurbine

For those who don't like having to deal with real world numbers here is an anecdote that shows just how crazy hiring can be.

My wife was new to a company but was clearly very good at her job and had previous management experience. Within a few months, her boss started grooming her for a manager position that they needed to fill. He personally encouraged her to apply but she didn't get the job.

Her boss told her that because the majority of the managers were women, it would look bad if he promoted another women. He ended up promoting a man who recently needed remedial training and promised that she would be next in line.

JohnBurke

Am I? Which specialized area of the industry am I in? The one in which I fly a widebody aircraft around the world? The one in which I do fractional, charter, ag, fire, law enforcement, government contract...yada, yada, yada? I've seen most segments of the industry up close and personal, and this is found everwhere. That's really the point. Don't assume.

Don't assume that because one example is given in one area that it's isolated to that area. It's not.

2StgTurbine

Wow, who peed in your cheerios?

You have many posts about aerial firefighting and your story was about a job with the USFS. That was the small area of the industry I was referring to. Next time I will be sure to include your entire resume so we can all know how great your are

JohnBurke

It has nothing to do with greatness; don't assume that prejudicial or biased hiring (or failure to hire) occurs in a "specialized" area. That is not the case.

There's nothing wrong with my cherios; if you haven't seen this in whatever segment of the industry you've seen, there's no need for you to apologize for the lack of experience. You'll see it, or you'll simply have gone through your career blindly and ignorant. Rest assured, it's there.

Learflyer

Well good. Just like she's supposed to.

headcase

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1olP4XJfJpk

skip to 1:10

some people just want to be center of attention

2StgTurbine

Now who is assuming?

Maybe I have more objective experience than you. What is your experience with interview coaching in or out of aviation? How many hiring programs have you reviewed? Have you conducted post interview questioning with applicants?

You assume that you were discriminated against because you had the most experience and weren't hired. Aviation is one of the few jobs where we measure experience to the hour. As a result, pilots forget that there is more to a interview than, "I have this many hours." There is more to a good employee than simply maxing out the experience category. Maybe they picked someone over you because they had ENOUGH experience AND were easier to deal with.

If you come across in an interview like you do on this forum, then that might be the reason you were not hired. You always have to tell everyone about your resume in a thread, you can't take the slightest hit to your pilot ego, you are passive aggressive (see quoted post), walk around with a chip on your shoulder, and you assume a company that doesn't hire your is discriminatory.

If you go through life everyday thinking everyone around you is an idiot, odds are you are the problem.