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First Officer Program or Continue Instructing

Old 09-06-2019, 05:18 AM
  #1  
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Default First Officer Program or Continue Instructing

Hey everyone. I'm a CFI and just started working on my CFII (has been a few years since I've done any instrument flying) and I'm at a place where I could use some input from fellow pilots. I'm at 430 hours with roughly 130 dual given. I'm in Ohio and I'm married with 3 kids. I have 6 primary students right now, but they are all about the same place in their training. I'm expecting them to have their PPL checkrides in early October, but I don't have any new students coming up behind them and winter is approaching. Moving away to warmer climate to instruct is not really in the cards, but if it came to that I would try to make it work. My end goal is a cargo carrier.

So....
Scenario 1: Look into a place like Ameriflight and a First Officer Program and work my way up through there

or

Scenario 2: Stick it out with instructing and hope things pan out and I can pick up some students somewhere to make it through the winter.

Any advice you have I'm open to. Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:31 AM
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I almost feel like this is a joke. Get a real flying job ASAP. You need quality time and fast. Instruct until a opportunity opens up. What am I missing?


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Old 09-06-2019, 05:35 AM
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I can see not wanting to move to a temporary location, kids & all.

Do you have a current job now, that you like? Beyond the flight instructing? What about trying to hookup with a nearby University that provides flight instruction? Many seem to be looking for CFIs, even if you didn’t go through their program.

Ballpark age? You really should be racking up flight time now, 50+ hours a month. CFI hours are quality hours.

Nothing wrong with cargo, but cast a wide net. For pilots that wide net also means willing to go where the better job is, within some reason.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by sourdough44 View Post
Nothing wrong with cargo, but cast a wide net. For pilots that wide net also means willing to go where the better job is, within some reason.
Yes. The majority of the best opportunities are in pax airlines, simply due to timing/retirements. I would avoid a track which narrows your opportunities. Regional flying is more broadly applicable than AMF.

Nothing wrong with AMF right now, but if you stay there you will not be be as competitive for as wide a range of opportunities vis a vis the majors.

But regarding feeder cargo... if you have a family, consider carefully. That job is relatively dangerous, fatalities are common so I stuck it out with flight instructing for that reason.

Last edited by rickair7777; 09-06-2019 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sourdough44 View Post
I can see not wanting to move to a temporary location, kids & all.

Do you have a current job now, that you like? Beyond the flight instructing? What about trying to hookup with a nearby University that provides flight instruction? Many seem to be looking for CFIs, even if you didn’t go through their program.

Ballpark age? You really should be racking up flight time now, 50+ hours a month. CFI hours are quality hours.

Nothing wrong with cargo, but cast a wide net. For pilots that wide net also means willing to go where the better job is, within some reason.
Thanks for the input. I'm 38 and after I got my CFI I dropped to working part time as an accountant to focus on flying as much as I could. I'm in a smaller town in Ohio so students have been challenging to pick up within a 50 minute drive. I'm 1.5 hours from Kent State and when I called there about an interview I was told they were only hiring CFI's within their program. Right now I'm averaging around 60 hours a month, but I'm concerned about the lack of students after what I currently have. Thanks again for your help.
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Old 09-06-2019, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Yes. The majority of the best opportunities are in pax airlines, simply due to timing/retirements. I would avoid a track which narrows your opportunities. Regional flying is more broadly applicable than AMF.

Nothing wrong with AMF right now, but if you stay there you will not be be as competitive for as wide a range of opportunities vis a vis the majors.

But regarding feeder cargo... if you have a family, consider carefully. That job is relatively dangerous, fatalities are common so I stuck it out with flight instructing for that reason.
Thanks rickair. You and sourdough both make a good point about narrowing my field to just cargo, especially early on in this journey. I never really looked at it from that side of things.

I instruct out of a little mom and pop Airport and have been averaging around 60 hours a month.
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:58 PM
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Are you an independent contractor? For a flying club/school? What are you doing to actively increase your clientele? I instructed long before social media existed, but I basically hung out at the counter of our flight school and talked to as many prospective students as I could. I gave them a free demo ride (they paid for the plane of course). I also relied on word of mouth advertising from my current students.

You’re job when you’re not flying is to build your clientele. Once your schedule is close to full, you raise your price for new students since you’re in demand at that point. You actually have an advantage as a 38 year old because people will assume (wrongly) that you have more experience, and they value that in an instructor. Never talk about “time building” for the airlines, but rather your love of instructing.

Also fill in for your fellow instructors when they are on vacation. If you’re at a part 141 school, become a phase examiner or pre solo examiner if you’re school requires that.

Edit:

You can instruct in the winter. I instructed in Colorado and would go out in the afternoon or evening after a snow storm and brush off the airplanes that my students had reserved for the next morning. I didn’t do it out of the goodness of my heart, but rather to put food on my table. It worked well.

Last edited by PRS Guitars; 09-06-2019 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Content added
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Old 09-07-2019, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PRS Guitars View Post
Are you an independent contractor? For a flying club/school? What are you doing to actively increase your clientele? I instructed long before social media existed, but I basically hung out at the counter of our flight school and talked to as many prospective students as I could. I gave them a free demo ride (they paid for the plane of course). I also relied on word of mouth advertising from my current students.

You’re job when you’re not flying is to build your clientele. Once your schedule is close to full, you raise your price for new students since you’re in demand at that point. You actually have an advantage as a 38 year old because people will assume (wrongly) that you have more experience, and they value that in an instructor. Never talk about “time building” for the airlines, but rather your love of instructing.

Also fill in for your fellow instructors when they are on vacation. If you’re at a part 141 school, become a phase examiner or pre solo examiner if you’re school requires that.

Edit:

You can instruct in the winter. I instructed in Colorado and would go out in the afternoon or evening after a snow storm and brush off the airplanes that my students had reserved for the next morning. I didn’t do it out of the goodness of my heart, but rather to put food on my table. It worked well.
Thanks for the info! I am an independent contractor for the FBO (Part 61). Building the clientele has been difficult, but I also understand it is not something that happens overnight. You bring up a couple good points. Thanks for the input.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:02 PM
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Hmmm, trying to figure out where in Ohio you are. Are you close to Toledo? You could get an FO job with Kalitta Charters flying Lear 35's or Falcon 20's in Ypsilanti.

Castle Aviation is South of Akron and they are a freight and charter operator. I think most of their flying is on demand but I have heard good things about them.

You are probably a good candidate for a summer Alaskan job. Try Ravn or ACE air cargo.

I would avoid AMF. Their turnover rate is way too high.

Have you heard of climbto350.com? It is the job website that most pilots use to find Part 91 and Part 135 jobs. Findapilot.com is also a good one. *************.com is also a helpful one.

If you want hours fast a good school to work at is Floris Flight Services in Midland, TX. The owner of the school is a controller and a retired regional pilot. The pay is $50 per hour and you will probably get as many hours as you want, but you have to find a place to live in the middle of an oil boom. Housing will be very expensive, but with the rate you will be building time and the quality of the school I think it is great deal.

The other thing I would say is to have some patience with your current CFI job. It sounds like you have a good thing going with the accountant side job. Another year or two of your current situation and you will have 1500 hours and can get a job at a regional. I would focus on getting a regional job because that is where you will have the best quality of life. There is not quality of life with a freight job. The schedule at a regional will be way better.

I would make your next goal to get your multi rating. Find a school that has an accelerated 3-6 day program and get that out of the way.

Once you have 600 hours and your multi rating I think most of the corporate charter operators in your area would be interested in you. The key is figuring out who does the hiring for the company and talking to that person on the phone about working there.
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:21 PM
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You absolutely want to avoid Ravn. I know a few that worked there and they have story after story of being unethical and at time financially unstable. I do agree, Kalitta Charters is a good launching pad on the non-121 side. You will upgrade fast and get great time and experience
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