Flyinlynn

Hi all

I’m a later in life career changer. I chucked it all to try to fly for a regional. Took a long time to get all my ratings working full time but never failed any check ride along the way to CFI.

Got a part time job instructing while still working. Got up to 1,000 hours and quit my day job to instruct full time. Made it to my 1,500 hours and applied with a regional. Left for training fall 2017.

Everything had been going to plan up to that point. But 121 training was nothing like what I had ever experienced and I was very ill prepared. I had about 0.0 glass time and the same for autopilot usage. The majority of my flying was in C172 or similar and stretched out over 10 years. so it didn’t go well. I was making slow progress in the sims and could see I wasn’t going to be able to make it in the time I was allowed so I resigned and went home.

Went home, got my CFII flew some G1000 time. Summer 2018 I applied to a smaller regional and got hired. Training was in a similar RJ so ground went much better. Passed the oral then on to the sims. I maxed out on allowed sims after having a 12 day break due to Christmas holiday. Did a couple of sims after the break and was signed off for the check ride. Didn’t pass...

Since I maxed the sim time they said they couldn’t allow any additional training. So that was it.

I came home and got to work on an MEI. Passed that check ride. Applied at several regionals. Most said no. Got a phone interview with one and two in person interviews. But no offers. Also applied at a large part 135 also a no from them.

So that’s my story. Any advice where to go from here? Do I have any hope left to be a professional pilot beyond CFI?

I was thinking about going to an accelerated ATP course somewhere to maybe at least get the rating and see if that would help at all. Running out of time for the part 121 world in a few more years.

Thanks...

galaxy flyer

Maybe 135 or corporate. What did you do in the prior life? Maybe that. It might be hard to overcome that record especially post-Atlas; employers are gonna be doubly careful.

rickair7777

Yeah probably need to focus on 91/135 for now. 135 if you can get it, turbine if you can get it.

Once you develop a track record, some regionals might entertain you. If not the shortage will hit corporate/135 pretty hard very soon, so there will be opportunities there.

Paying for a common RJ type might also get you a foot in the door at a regional but that would be very expensive with no guarantees. But I think somebody would take you since they know you could pass training on that jet.


With all that said... do some careful self-evaluation. It's not uncommon for some pilots, especially older career changers, to have a very shallow climb gradient with turbine skills (I saw that more than a couple times at the regional). If that's your case you'll get there eventually and be a perfectly adequate pilot. But if your fundamental aptitude just can't handle the pace and complexity o advanced airplanes for your own sake, and the pax, you should stick to your comfort zone. You have enough experience at this point to self-assess on that (I'd have to fly with you to even guess).

Also for older folks healthy living in training is a must...

1. Get enough sleep. Like 8 hours.
2. Very minimal booze. One glass might take the edge off at the end of the day. 3-4 will take the edge off of what you learned today.
3. Brain food. 100% not kidding. Plenty of salmon and/or avocados daily. I start on that regimen 2-3 weeks before any training and it makes a noticeable difference, especially for memory.
4. Exercise. Cardio at least five days/week. At a bare minimum hard brisk walks, but try to break a sweat. Reduces stress, improves cognitive function.
5. Stress. Clear your plate obviously. Don't study TOO much, that's counter-productive and your brain will vapor lock. I've literally seen long-time pro pilots who could not recall basic mems and lims because they were cramming so hard.

Do that stuff and your brain will work a lot better. Noticeably better.

galaxy flyer

I might add, from a retired chief pilot who’s still in the biz, a jet corporate job will send you to a type rating course right out of the box. And, despite opinions to the contrary, it’s not a cakewalk. My old operation just had a pilot which a long resume of bizjet time flunk out of a CAE course after several attempts to get the recommend ride. It’s 5 sims and an rating ride. There’s less 121 BS, but it’s fast paced and assumes a lot of knowledge. HUD use, when equipped, is part of those 5 or 6 sims. OTOH, our guys that had to go to CRJ school to fly the 850 hated the “you missed to pushback call”, for example. We don’t push.

Build some ME time, maybe Ameriflight or a FDX contractor, perhaps Surf Air, Tradewind, or Planesense to get some actual instrument time in a glass cockpit.

GF

Flyinlynn

hi rickair7777

All I did was study. I don’t drink at all. Yeah I do think I developed vapor lock.
Not much of a healthy eater so lots of TV dinners. All we had was a two burner stove and microwave. Not any exercise either they had a area in the hotel with a couple of treadmill.

Mostly just the school house then back to the hotel to study in my room and a few times with classmates.

The accelerated ATP I’m looking at has a Diamond Twin Star. Just figure I can put ATP on my business cards and also protect my written test results.

The first time through training I was drowning in all the acronyms. I knew what MFD and PFD meant that’s about it. So I was taking copious notes to look up everything after class and missing lecture in the process and falling very behind.

Hi GF

I did apply with one of those part 135 you mentioned they said they would like me to have experience at a 135 other than them and they might consider me at another time.

I’m kinda of intimidated by the five sims and a rating ride. That was what the first regional training was. Normal was five sims allowing up to five additional. I resigned after sim seven.

Wish I could find a FO type position where I could learn before I have to jump into the deep end if there even is such a thing. I guess that was what I thought training was, you learn to be a competent helper to the captain and grow in ability in the job a kind of OJT or apprenticeship concept. But learned they want you to be able to fly the jet basically solo if needed out the gate. I did not arrive with the required skill set and background.

Flying steam gauge Cessna’s around the practice area VFR teaching slow flight does not a CRJ pilot make.

Sparky1015

I really admire your perseverance Lynn. That really helps in this business.

I totally agree with Rick and Galaxy. Also, the fire-hose training of 121 isn’t ideally suited for everyone. Until quite recently, most civilian pilots had the CFI ratings, added an ATP plus had 500 hours of multi time before the first airline interview. Then came the turboprops and ultimately jets. Lots of steps to learn from before the big 121 job came along.

If it were me, I’d look for a job where there’s good mentoring and skill accumulation outside of 121. Fortunately, we’re in the biggest hiring wave for new pilots in the last 40 years!

Most cities have small charter companies that need copilots in the PC-12s, King Airs or Citation’s for instance. That’s great IFR, EFIS, Crew coordination and autopilot experience. In my area, there are 3 outfits that hire copilots in light jets and turboprops and they’re always needing more. They hire copilots at 1000 hours and help them progress. It’s really fun flying too.

Hope this gives a little food for thought. Good luck and we’re all rooting for you.

galaxy flyer

This! I flew eons ago with just that kind of outfit after USAF UPT—great experience builder, lots of connections, etc. but, try to make sure it’s got a decent reputation for safety, maintenance, crew training. Ask how they move you from a KA to a jet. I’d don’t particularly like it, but getting a 61.55 co-pilot check won’t expose you to the rating ride. BUT, at a training center, you’ll get a end of course check. The other option is the local 61.55 co-pilot program—some ground school, local training flight.

GF

Sparky1015

Galaxy has a good point about company reputation. Since you’ve had recent success in your part 61 checkrides, what about asking your DPE for advice? What do your flight instructor/chief instructor think?

EugeneMosquito

Do not blame yourself! It is mostly not your fault. If you failed to do something - that mostly means your instructor had fault teaching you and should be fired! Commercial aviation - it is not a pure and essential aviation as it used to be. It's just a business, even an industry. And this business has been launched not for pilots or passengers just but for owners. The companies mostly do not care about something behind just to quickly grow up an utility instrument (a "pilot") for making just money getting them from pax. When you are young - they will use your abilities. If not - they quickly can understand they can make faster money with somebody else. Training department often sucks: mostly they are not TRAINING - they are checking departments: "study this, pass the checkride and bring us money! Go!" Fortunately the Sky and the Aviation are not equal to this approach. So. Try again. Never stop.

TiredSoul

Take smaller steps.
Go from piston to turboprop to Jet.
When you get a class-date give yourself more time. You can find any airplane systems online.
Study before you go.
May even do a sim or two on your won dime before you go to class.
If you can find a sim with a couple of open slots.
I went from flying glass for 10 years to an analog jet. That was interesting too.

I think the first one is on you.
Shoulda coulda woulda prepare more prior to going to your first Regional.
But you’re not alone, lots of posts here from people that didn’t make it through their first Regional training.
You didn’t pass the ride the second time but you didn’t state why not.
Was this something skill related or decision making related ?

in addition to what I said before put some tar on your soul and consider that next time failure is not an option.
Study study study before you go.
Find somebody local or even on here that flies that airplane. Pick their brain over systems.
Teach yourself the airplane.
Have all company assigned groundschool finished before you go.
It makes for a lot less stressful first couple fo weeks or week in case of 135.
If you find your training partner to be the party type ask for somebody else.
Exercise during training as it gets rid of a lot of negative stress.
Come back from the school house take a power nap of 1-2 hrs. Then go study solo then with your training buddy.
The lesser the stress levels the better you will perform in the sim.
But treat it like astronaut training and you’re heading to Mars to save mankind.
Really.