Not to mention they have almost no schedule flex like 121 guys do with some seniority, and on top of that no union backing.

Makes me wonder how most of them allow to be treated like that and not organize like in this industry.

 

When you're just a faceless number, it's easy for management to abuse you. It's also easy to organize, since you don't have to personally confront the boss.

In white collar, you know the boss well, it's harder to confront him or her. I've done it, I had leverage (he couldn't afford to lose me at that moment) and it's still not easy.

You have to be prepared to be fired on the spot, and also have to worry that the boss is now out to get you as soon as it's convenient for him.

White collar workers who are faceless numbers have unionized, notably Boeing engineers.

 

What does it matter? Why all the competition? Why do we easily play this game? Get to ATP mins and never log anther hour. I believe there is a reason why there is a "work history" section on applications. Stand together and put the ball in their court. They should do the work. Plus at the end of the day they hire who they want to hire, not a log book.

 

There is such a thing as fraudulent logbook entries and last time I checked it was still frowned upon.
As in certificate revocation frowned upon so yes who cares?

 

They want detail-oriented people at the better jobs. Not logging your time, or not logging it neatly, consistently, and accurately will throw a red-flag. That's just how the game is played. I've gotten rather lazy about logging since I got to my career-destination job.

 

I didn't say anything about pencil whipping logbooks.

Who is they? Who are we? Logging anything pass an ATP is goalless. It says nothing about being a detailed-oriented person but says everything about competing with one another in their game of psycho mechanics. Do "they" fly with us or in the seat next to us? Ever flew with someone who asked you how much time you have which would determine rather or not you could fly with them after reaching ATP mins? We don't have to play the game against each other. I do believe in going the extra mile but not this way against each other.

 

"They" are career-destination majors, the kind who pay you hundreds of thousands of $ to work 10-12 days/month.

"We" is self-explanatory.

I'm not here to debate this, just telling you how it is.

Also other sectors of aviation also like applicants to have good logbooks, because they DON'T have the obvious assurance of PRIA confirming that you worked for a prior 121 carrier for X number of years.

You're not going to change it, but if you don't want to play I'm sure someone else will be happy to take your slot when the time comes.

 

Not here to debate either. We can change it. I can't and you cant do it alone. This is my point. However, logbooks do not take slots and it would be very foolish if and when logbooks do take someone's slot. I know this from experience. We were all low time pilots once before. I have been canned for someone with more time than me after I was trained. A logbook guy replaced me. A month later the logbook guy was filing a law suit against the company for getting hurt on his own stupidity not knowing how a hanger door worked.

The question is, how do we bring that quality of life down to where it is shared. 10-12 days per month and financially comfortable and stable when we agree to compete with each other over "legal" log book entries. Not every one can make hundreds of thousands of dollars it's impossible and most of us can agree we don't have to live beyond our financial means in greed. Every time we sit in the right or left seat we gain experience. Someone says you can't count that as experience legally and we comply. It doesn't have to be like this. If we show up to class to learn we should get credit for it regardless of what seat we sit in. What is the goal to reach from sitting in class and counting? APT, because why go beyond? for slong measurement? It's absolutely silly.

 

There needs to be a definition of what it is legal flight time to log. That way all logbooks are honest comparisons.

Could you learn something from watching a pilot perform single ops? Sure.
How about playing Microsoft flight sim? Probably
What about being a passenger on the back of an airline? Maybe

None of those things are honest flight time.

Employers hire based on experience and you should track your experience to show that you are legitimately the best candidate

 

The FARs define that pretty well. But their interest is in certs, rating, and currency. There are a few grey areas as far as logging experience for employers but even most of those have been resolved by FAA legal interpretations.

Employers are pretty good at parsing the few grey areas, they will have you fill out their apps in a specific manner. Your logbook does not need to mirror employer apps in every way, but you will need to be able to how you got from A in your book to B on their app.

Defining a standard time-logging scheme for employer convenience isn't really a business the FAA wants to be in. They only got involved with PRIA and then PRD because congress made them do it.