followingdreams

I dont agree with this at all......from a guy with 121 background and 135...if you are logging 121 time, airlines "typically want a talley of signed off..." however ANY time outside of 121 time, they will allow you to count PIC time as "sole manipulator of the controls" ASSUMING you have a PIC type rating in the aircraft being flow (not an SIC type rating). SIC type rating in a single pilot aircraft and that time is pretty much useless, no one will count that

JohnBurke

Not in the least. Airlines have an expectation that time logged as pilot in command will be time spent as acting as pilot in command (which means one was the pilot in command), but there is no expectation that one keep separate columns in the logbook for imaginary classifications such as "sole manipulator PIC."
ht
If one wishes to keep it simple, only log time as PIC when one is the PIC, acting as PIC, sole ultimate authority for the flight.

In the airline world, one must be designated the PIC by the certificate holder, and remains the PIC for the duration of the flight. The same is true under Part 135.

For operators under Part 91, this is not necessarily the case; one may be pilot in command for half of the flight, by prior arrangement with the "copcaptain," and then swap roles. In such a case, one might log half the flight as PIC, and be within the acceptable guidelines of 121 operators. One might log the whole thing as PIC and no one would be the wiser. To log it as "sole manipulator PIC" would be to invent a classification that is not found in the regulation.

One can certainly log anything; one could create a column in the logbook for pink airplanes, if desired, though no such time classification is found int eh regulation.

If one is logging PIC under 121 or 135 when one is not the PIC, one is creating a problem for one's self. If you're not PIC, then don't log PIC.

There is a difference, of course, between logging PIC, and acting as PIC. The airlines in general are concerned with acting as PIC; the airlines want to know about time spent acting as PIC. One may log PIC, and not be the actual PIC, One may be the actual PIC and be unable to log PIC. One may be the PIC and be unable to log the time at all. Logging PIC is not the same as acting as PIC.

If one limits one's self to logging only the time as PIC when one is acting as PIC, any questions are eliminated, is the dubious and questionable practice of inventing things to put in the logbook like "pink airplanes," "sole manipulator PIC," or "time spent in flight above 500' AGL while wearing a green flannel shirt."

Of just log PIC. If one is flying a Dash 8 as a 250 hour pilot, and has a type rating given but is clearly not the captain on the flight, then it's patently obvious that one is logging PIC, but actually PIC. Make it simple and log it all as SIC, because one is the SIC. If one was flying with a buddy in his Cessna 340 and logged the time as PIC, putting it in a "sole manipulator" column only muddies the logging. Just log PIC, if you're entitled, and be done. If someone asks if you were the PIC, point to the logbook because it shows PIC, smile, and turn the page.

I guarantee nobody is going to ask you if you were really wearing a green flannel shirt when you were above 500' AGL, like the imaginary column shows, and you don't have to tell them it was really a polyester blend. Think about it.

rickair7777

No they don't have any expectation that you log it separately. It's more for YOUR own convenience... a typical pilot applying to multiple majors (most should) will need to update multiple apps every 30-60 days, and most of them want your times sliced and diced in different and creative ways. It can be quite the science project.

What you need to avoid is mixing sole man PIC in with in-command PIC on airline apps which specify in-command PIC.

dera

This is inaccurate. On augmented crews, you can have multiple pilots sign the release as PIC.

rickair7777

Yes, my understanding is that you can have say an augmented crew where there's one PIC who remains PIC even when resting. Or you can just have a spare crew, who takes over entirely on their shift including PIC duty. Nothing says you have to be on the ground to change the PIC.

TiredSoul

Exactly.
Thats not logging the time though.
You are “acting PIC” because the ( for the lack of a better word) dispatched PIC is on break.
You’re still to call them up though when things get serious.
”THEY” get to log the block time as PIC , “WE” get to log the seat time as SIC.
Just the way the cookie crumbles.

dera

If you want, its perfectly legal to log that time as PIC. Bold strategy and good luck explaining that in an interview.

Funny detail, UPS asks for PIC time when nominated PIC either before or during the flight.
I know a guy hired there with counting just his relief PIC time he logged.

hercretired

logbook for pilot hours and "what you claim on your airline app" indeed may be different. PIC for airline app purposes is "Aircraft Commander, Captain, final signor, final the crap-stops-here person in charge of the plane." For this purpose, the guy may not even TOUCH the controls but if he is responsible ultimately, for the safety and success of the flight, he is PIC. PIC is about RESPONSIBILITY, not yoke-holding, for airline app purposes. Yes, he must be legally qualified for that airplane.

I think of PIC as "PRIMARY in command" and SIC as, surprise, it is SECOND in command.

If it is a two seat airplane, and between the two of you, the guy PRIMARY in command is the PIC. Period, the end.

The King Air stuff is indeed a grey area. A King Air 90 is one thing, the type rating required B-350 is a little different. tread carefully and be able to articulate what you "claim" when you apply for jobs.

my two cents