seyepape

Hey guys
So I received a notice of disapproval because I did not include alternates on my nav log even though the weather along my flight plan was VFR all the way to my destination. The other thing is I gave a wrong answer first about the non-standard alternates minimum for a precision approach (flight visibility 2 Statute mile) the DPE did not allow me to look at 91.169 since I was not sure. Other than that, we went over all ACS and all the questions were answered correctly. My notice of disapproval just mentioned alternate and flight planning. I did not receive a debrief from the DPE nor did my instructor. No ones could tell me why I failed. The DPE did not talk to me, he just left without saying a word. What’s your insight in that? I was left confused. It was hard to digest that. I ended up passing with the same DPE after a 3-minute oral in which he did not know what the ground for the failure was. I don’t know how to explain this during my interview in which I don’t want anyone to think I don’t own up to my mistakes. The DPE has a bad reputation for unfair checkrides. If he like the student, he will give short oral, fly the plane for them. There are horrible stories If people ask around. Most students fear for retaliation and the school does not care. It's a pyramid scheme!

QRH Bingo

Just keep grinding on and put it behind you, without forgetting it. I had a similar experience with a DPE who showed up as Mr. Hyde on day 1, issuing a notice of disapproval and a week later showed up as Dr. Jekyll. The DPE even proclaimed how they love it when students show up prepared and makes the job easy, as if forgetting how they berated me the previous meeting. After some networking and research, this DPE tends to be moody which affects their outlook, and likely the judgement of applicants. I never returned to that DPE again; life moves on and so did I. However, I did learn a valuable lesson; you're never as prepared as you might think you are. While I may not have deserved the verbal abuse, I did deserve the pink slip.

To me, it seems there is likely more missing to your explanation, but to quote Metallica, "in the end, it doesn't even matter." Move on. Stop lashing out that it's a pyramid scheme... maybe so, maybe not, but you certainly will not prove it. If you have options for your next checkride, then explore those. If you are at a school and they arrange checkrides for you, then be more prepared next time.

JohnBurke

You don't explain it. You own it. You made mistakes, you learned from them, and you came back and passed. That's the explanation.

Then you shouldn't have used him. That shows poor judgement on your part. We're paid for our judgement. You want to go to an interview and explain that you showed poor judgement? That's just marginally worse than blaming the checkride failure on someone else. Don't do either one.

You should perhaps research the meaning of "pyramid scheme," as you don't appear to understand the term.

If these "horrible stories" were to be had by asking around, why didn't you ask around before you took the checkride?

Bottom line, you'll never improve your situation by tearing the examiner down, denigrating the flight school, or telling stories about "pyramid schemes." You didn't pass a checkride. You made mistakes. You recognize them, you learned from them, and you came back to re-test, and pass. End of story. Don't tell more than that story, because it's the only one that will play.

seyepape

I owned for the fact that I did not provide a correct answer for that question regarding the nonstandard alternates minimum. He had the audacity to tell me during the oral that I memorized all the answers because my answers were quick. He seemed not be familiar with LP approach. He then vented about the school teachings. DPEs are held to high standards, I expect a level of professionalism in that profession. I came from a professional world, never believed into certain things or never experienced it. I was advised not to go with him and realized all the horrors other students had with him after him failing me. It is my fault for not digging deeper into those warnings. The flight portion during the retest was a joke. He did not want me to do briefings for the approach plates for the fact that the frequency was congested and on top of that was mad that I went around upon instruction of tower because he wanted me to go all the way down to DA. Approach control was not buying into what he wanted so I did the coms while he decided to take over the control and flew the plane exceed Vno while there were turbulences. I had never been so scared for the fact that he was full throttle (2700rpm) way above VA. He yelled at me for reducing power because I feared exceeding the load limit and ripped off a wing. I saved all flight data via flightradar in case. The main reason why I am looking for insights is one student posted on facebook about his failures with him. He posted that the oral was only 3 questions, then flew the plane for him and failed him because the student took over the control and forgot to activate the approach mode. I took screenshots of that post and comments before the post was removed. I had two students disclosed to me not knowing my situation with him that he gave them easy orals, flew the plane, then passed them. I could definitely relate to that. I was told to report him but also want to get different insights. Even though he passed me during the retest, i was not proud nor did celebrate anything. I was so ****ed that I still did not have him signed my logbook.

seyepape

All those horrible stories were disclosed right after I failed not before. I asked but no one did not want to disclose i am sure for fear of retaliation. I reiterate my words again about pyramid schemes. Complaints have been made and nothing was done. He has been around for very long. I had a poor judgement trusting the system. I did not pass however at least deserved a debrief so I knew the ground for that failure. The notice did not elaborate about anything just two words. Maybe I should edit my post.

dckozak

The basic message here (true for all things in life, good and bad) is don't try to blame others, especially when not owning up just looks like you can't accept your part in something that's gone a miss. That's not to say you don't have a good case, it's just that no one is going to judge you (positively) or convince them of your totally infallibly in a documented failure. As others will attest, a check ride failure is not a career ender or show stopper to flying. Many, many pilots have failed check rides and moved on and up. Own it and more importantly, dissect it, be self critical, learn how to avoid it in the future. When you need to explain it, as others have already said, explain and admit were you went wrong and how you learned from it. Anything else will sound like sour grapes and the perceived lack of personal accountability, will be worse than the offense.

Myfingershurt

DPEs are not professionals. They’re grumpy old men who were in the right pace at the right time. If you want professionals, schedule your checkrides with an FAA inspector/examiner. You might not ever pass, but they’re definitely professional.

QRH Bingo

Give me a minute to warm up the popcorn....

Maybe you are just looking for somewhere to vent and will feel better after. But I'll give you a bit of advice on here (which I'm sure you are not seeking); speaking like this will not help you to gain sympathy. Nor is it likely to garner any real advice from those on here who have "been there, done that" and willing to share their lessons learned.

Oh yeah, failing to arm approach mode will likely earn you a disapproval so I'm not sure what you expect from that excuse.

JohnBurke

What do you think "pyramid scheme" means?

Your explanation is irrelevant. Your story is irrelevant.

You asked how you deal with this in the future, and you've been told. It's very simple. LISTEN.

Do not blame the check airman. Do not tell your story. You say this, and this only: you screwed up. You failed. You took the test again, and passed. End of story.

Say nothing more than this. Don't blather about how you were wronged. Don't put down the check airman. Don't put down the school. Stop referring to a "pyramid scheme." Stop justifying it.

You failed a checkride. It doesn't matter if you failed because you wore the wrong clothes, or the check airman was a gorilla, or because of solar flares. You failed. You can state why you failed. That's it. State nothing more about your failure, other than it was your failure. State nothing more about the check airman than you came back and took the test again with the same guy, and you passed. That's it. You learned from your mistakes, and you passed.

You say anything more, and it will only make you look bad. Believe this. Embrace it. If you fail to do so, it will only harm you.

seyepape

I was referring for the facts that he has been breaking rules by not following the standards. DPE are supposed to evaluate candidates by going over the ACS for the knowledge not asking only 3 questions because he might like the person. They should not take over controls unless a deviation occurs in flight nor teach during a checkride. FAA invalidated 140 checkride in Alaska because the DPE was not giving full checkride to some of the students which bring the questions of favoritism or discrimination. I am well aware of telling my story will not help in my case. I definitely learned my lesson from that experience. I wanted to get insights wether report him or not for breaking the rules. Anyway, I appreciate your feedback.