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Old 08-27-2023, 02:16 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Twincezzna View Post
It was a VOR app and already in vpath. I was outside the faf so my rounded mins were in the MCP. (Mins were 560 I had 500 on MCP) I set the faf alt in the cruise page and I guess this is where it recalculated a new vpath. The approach was still in the FMC and it was supposed to level at 2,000 which was the point prior to the faf. It blew through the 2,000 since I recruited to 1400.
Stop trying to explain yourself on this forum and move on. Go ahead and apply to other airlines if they washed you out. Or re take the checkride if they didn't. It isn't the end of the world. What is done is done, and you cant change the past.
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Old 08-27-2023, 03:17 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Twincezzna View Post
It was a VOR app and already in vpath. I was outside the faf so my rounded mins were in the MCP. (Mins were 560 I had 500 on MCP) I set the faf alt in the cruise page and I guess this is where it recalculated a new vpath. The approach was still in the FMC and it was supposed to level at 2,000 which was the point prior to the faf. It blew through the 2,000 since I recruited to 1400.
Iíve lost track of how many of these approaches Iíve flown and taught. Different companies have slightly different procedures. If it is a certain MIA cargo carrier I know, they have some weird carry over ideas and no CRM program. In any case, your examiner had the authority to stop the ride, and give training on the maneuver, then re-start the ride and re-do the maneuver. Iíve done that for a few students, going back to 1988. Donít know his reason for not doing that. He may be new himself.

This stuff seems like magic, but itís not really. Just a different way of doing things. KEEP THIS IN MIND. No matter what type of approach it is, as soon as you realize things are not working as you expected and the airplane isnít doing what you want, during approach or landingÖGO AROUND, CALM DOWN, TALK IT OUT AND DO IT AGAIN. DONíT GET IN A HURRY.

Youíll be fine.

As you prepare yourself for the re-run, fly it again in your hotel room and say outlloud every step and everything thing you expect to see ( have a mate there to listen)
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Old 08-27-2023, 04:47 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by hopp View Post
Iíve lost track of how many of these approaches Iíve flown and taught. Different companies have slightly different procedures. If it is a certain MIA cargo carrier I know, they have some weird carry over ideas and no CRM program. In any case, your examiner had the authority to stop the ride, and give training on the maneuver, then re-start the ride and re-do the maneuver. Iíve done that for a few students, going back to 1988. Donít know his reason for not doing that. He may be new himself.

This stuff seems like magic, but itís not really. Just a different way of doing things. KEEP THIS IN MIND. No matter what type of approach it is, as soon as you realize things are not working as you expected and the airplane isnít doing what you want, during approach or landingÖGO AROUND, CALM DOWN, TALK IT OUT AND DO IT AGAIN. DONíT GET IN A HURRY.

Youíll be fine.

As you prepare yourself for the re-run, fly it again in your hotel room and say outlloud every step and everything thing you expect to see ( have a mate there to listen)
The examiner is there to evaluate, not instruct. No examiner is going to do what you suggest: stop the ride, teach the manuever/procedure, then resume the ride and do said manuever/procedure all over again. With that said, you'll still get an unsat for that part of the ride. Now if the examiner wants to go above and beyond to offer instruction, that's on them...but you're not gonna get a mulligan. You're still gonna get an unsat.
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Old 08-27-2023, 05:30 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Twincezzna View Post
It was a VOR app and already in vpath. I was outside the faf so my rounded mins were in the MCP. (Mins were 560 I had 500 on MCP) I set the faf alt in the cruise page and I guess this is where it recalculated a new vpath. The approach was still in the FMC and it was supposed to level at 2,000 which was the point prior to the faf. It blew through the 2,000 since I recruited to 1400.
You were flying a VOR approach in the box, which made it an RNAV procedure, regardless of the procedure title. The FMC selected what it needed for sensors to fly the approach, but rest assured it was not merely VOR input: it was taking input from all sensors on that procedure in order to conduct the procedure, and whether it's titled as VOR or RNAV, it's still flown as a non-precision RNAV through the box. Because you had the altitude values in the legs page, and because your altitudes were set in the MCP, you had no need to re-cruise the box, especially if you were already in VNAV Path.

The only thing change to be made, and that's setting up the procedure, is if both the FAF and the prior fix are /A (above" altitudes, then the prior fix is best made a "hard" altitude. That wouldn't have changed the result in your case; you gave the FMC new guidance that was lower than the crossing fix. More importantly, you weren't just giving it another altitude, but changing the mode of the FMC.

Again, doesn't change the result. Pass the second ride and move on. You can't make the former failure go away, but you can put time and distance behind you, on a bed of successful employment and checkrides. Living well is the best revenge.
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Old 08-27-2023, 06:10 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by hopp View Post
Iíve lost track of how many of these approaches Iíve flown and taught. Different companies have slightly different procedures. If it is a certain MIA cargo carrier I know, they have some weird carry over ideas and no CRM program. In any case, your examiner had the authority to stop the ride, and give training on the maneuver, then re-start the ride and re-do the maneuver. Iíve done that for a few students, going back to 1988. Donít know his reason for not doing that. He may be new himself.

This stuff seems like magic, but itís not really. Just a different way of doing things. KEEP THIS IN MIND. No matter what type of approach it is, as soon as you realize things are not working as you expected and the airplane isnít doing what you want, during approach or landingÖGO AROUND, CALM DOWN, TALK IT OUT AND DO IT AGAIN. DONíT GET IN A HURRY.

Youíll be fine.

As you prepare yourself for the re-run, fly it again in your hotel room and say outlloud every step and everything thing you expect to see ( have a mate there to listen)
What gives him an authority to pause a 121 type ride, instruct, and re evaluate) it was not AQP MV.
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Old 08-28-2023, 04:23 AM
  #26  
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To those who UNSATTEDÖ donít dwell on the pastÖ. The horse is dead and it ainít getting up. Concentrate on what you need fix, retake the check.


There are so many platforms out thereÖ Honeywell, Garmin, Universal. CollinsÖ all have their own idiosyncrasies in their operations specific.

Extra disciplines are required in a Glass Cockpit EnvironmentÖ Remember, the MCP lies and the FMA tells truth. Verbalize with confirmation from the PM FMC entries/MCP modes. Like playing chessÖ anticipate and verbalize your next moveÖ required vertical and lateral modesÖ FMA/MCP selections.
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Old 08-28-2023, 07:06 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
What gives him an authority to pause a 121 type ride, instruct, and re evaluate) it was not AQP MV.

IRCC correctly you can rewind and try an event again on an FAA type ride as long as it's not also an ATP ride.

I don't think the examiner can retrain the applicant, just give them another shot at what they gooned up (retraining would be as you say an AQP MV thing).
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Old 08-28-2023, 07:31 AM
  #28  
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What does AQP have to do with this?
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Old 08-28-2023, 10:10 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
This sounds like a cop out. I'll bet there's a clear explanation about VNAV in your manual. Claiming a "gap" is putting 100% of your training on your instructors during classroom and simulator events. You have a responsibility to study the subject matter too. Expecting everything you might encounter in the aircraft or simulator to be provided to your by someone else is unrealistic.
You clearly don't understand VNAV or you wouldn't have tried to re-cruise the box on an approach, most likely in VNAV Path and in Descent mode. Get in the books and do what's necessary to gain a working knowledge of the system so you're not just repeating behavior without any real understanding of what the expected outcome of an action will be.
So youíre saying itís a cop out to suggest that you were deficient in an area for which you had no training?
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Old 08-28-2023, 10:44 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
IRCC correctly you can rewind and try an event again on an FAA type ride as long as it's not also an ATP ride.

I don't think the examiner can retrain the applicant, just give them another shot at what they gooned up (retraining would be as you say an AQP MV thing).
If itís an FAA practical test (for certificate or rating) then no redos allowed. If it was just a PC or AQP MV then one ďstop.retrain.redoĒ is allowed for one item and the PC/MV still be considered an overall satisfactory event.
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