Shenzi105

Going through the NetJets thread and the comparison with the 121 is funny.

Stop comparing with what you call 121. It's not 121. The majority of the 121 airlines offer crap pay with crap benefits and employees are treated like crap. The majority; Air Wisconsin, Envoy, TSA, GoJet, Compass, Skywest, CommutAir, Republic, Piedmont, PSA, Expressjets, Silver Airways, Cape Air, Horizon, Mesa are 121 airlines.

Just semantics, but pretty important difference in pay/benefits/QOL, a grand canyon of difference between these and the Majors. Even the lack of pay during the first 3 months of training and the average $4,300/month at Spirit Year 1 is better than the above.

Start using the word "Majors". Fits what you want to describe and c compare NJA or Flex with.

BoilerUP

Is NJA considered an entry-level turbine job, like the regional airlines you listed?

Twofiddyatten

I think people look at NJA as a spectrum like you would look at any job. The majority of career NJA pilots are airline refugees that were once furloughed, so NJA then became their career job. You can make any job a career for any reason, but in 2019 it’s hard to understand why anyone would pay tens of thousands of dollars to get all your certs and ratings, to pick a job that over a career will earn you millions less, work you harder and give you less days off.

Twofiddyatten

It’s a great metric to aim for. Work rules, security, pay, retirement etc are better at the major airlines. Even with salaries being under pre 9/11, the money made for the amount of time on duty, is much higher than NJA, and it probably always will be, so keep aiming for the stars and maybe you’ll only hit the moon, but t makes perfect sense that airlines would be used as comparison for compensation purposes. Who else would NJA use? Corporate pilot salaries vary greatly as do the work rules. The only consistent target to aim for is 121.

LLWS09R

I’m not following. Are we talking about comparing NJA to a regional air carrier that operates under Part 121 of the FAR. Or all Part 121 carriers? Part 121 simply stipulates the required regulation an air carrier must adhere to. So yes while Envoy and American Airlines are separate companies operating under the same rules (Part121). I agree their compensation package do not compare. I would agree comparing regionals and NJA is not a very good comparison. Majors vs NJA one might argue compensation and work conditions would be a very good debate.

Retractable

Seems fitting as long as other Frax and GA are compared to NetJets.

😂

BBJones

When does the current NJASAP agreement come up for re-negotiation? Are there many NetJet pilots who are interested in taking a on the kind of bargaining posture that might lead to significant increases in pay and conditions?


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Shenzi105

Just semantics.
members keep on using the term 'part 121' as if all part 121 were majors airlines while 60-70% are not.
Let's compare apple to apple and use the term "majors" when comparing Netjets or Flexjets.

Twofiddyatten

Not sure there is a point to your argument. I see what you are saying, but this is high level semantics right here....

pugpilot

Commutair + Envoy + GoJet + Piedmont + Republic + Wisky + Compass + Endeavor + Expressjet + Horizon + Mesa + PSA + Skywest + Trans States = ~20,000 Pilots.

Delta + United + American + SWA = ~52,000 pilot

While the percentage of Major airlines compared to regional airlines might not hit 60-70% - the number of pilots in the 121 world is easily 60-70% employed by Major Airlines.

To not go crazy, I didn't just total up every airline listed in "regional" but instead used my own metric of "airline that operates as a subcontractor for a major airline" to determine which ones to count. Didn't bother counting Alaska, Spirit, JB, Allegiant, Frontier, UPS, Fedex as "Majors" because people use the term "Big 3 plus 1" or "Big 3" as a stand-in for what is generally accepted as the Majors.

The impression that regional pilots make up a majority of 121 flying might be inferred because they make up such a disproportionately high number of people on APC due to: Age; and "more actively looking for a new job"