Stop calling it 121
11-20-2019, 09:02 AM
#31
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Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by Twofiddyatten
Well said. NJA pilots that have been there a long time, have no clue what the current state of the regional airline industry is in terms of pay and benefits. Most of them think regionals are flying Metroliners starting at 21k a year and PFT.
What I will add, is that maybe the comparison of NJA versus is regionals is only really unfair as regionals are not designed to be career jobs. But what I would say, is that I would venture to say that the vast majority of NJA pilots didn't envision a career at NJA until they were forced to. I wonder what the amount of new hires now going to NJA are that have zero desire to ever leave...
What I will add, is that maybe the comparison of NJA versus is regionals is only really unfair as regionals are not designed to be career jobs. But what I would say, is that I would venture to say that the vast majority of NJA pilots didn't envision a career at NJA until they were forced to. I wonder what the amount of new hires now going to NJA are that have zero desire to ever leave...
11-20-2019, 09:11 AM
#32
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Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by DH2time
The attrition rate of pilots with less than 5 years is just a shade under 35 percent. That’s your answer I think.
11-20-2019, 09:43 AM
#33
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Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
Originally Posted by Twofiddyatten
I wonder what the amount of new hires now going to NJA are that have zero desire to ever leave...
11-20-2019, 10:21 AM
#34
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Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Silver02ex
We have a some FO here at Spirit that left Netjets and are now commuters. The most common answer that I get when I asked them why the left, was the upgrade time.
11-20-2019, 03:47 PM
#35
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Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 66
I left Nja for nk and am very glad I did. Even commuting to reserve was a quality of life improvement. Makes me wish I’d left long before.
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11-20-2019, 08:16 PM
#36
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Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,109
Originally Posted by Shenzi105
The OP was saying... when posters keep comparing both and say ng how life/benefits/pay is so much better at the "121", that it should be underlined ed that it is at the majors/legacy, that "life is like paradise on earth", not ALL 121, and especially not the regionals and definitely not PSA, but it's definitely worth it for the 10 years flow.
LOL, funny there. YEAR 1 at NJA, flying a 20,000 lbs aircraft, is $80K or $85K, and after FDP and other overtime a Year 1 guy average what you make at Year 5 as a Captain.
and if you want 15 days guarantee per month, 7 on 7 off, schedule set, predicted, for the next 3-4 years if you want, you'll make min. guarantee $65K Year 1 and get around $100K with FDP and overtime. So, not even close, especially PSA where you guys are struggling to fly 75 hrs/month.
Anyway, I am getting off track. My point was yes, NJA is not at all like the majors/legacy but when people say it's so much better at the major, I am supposing that they are comparing with the majors/legacy, not the regionals. So, we agree
LOL, funny there. YEAR 1 at NJA, flying a 20,000 lbs aircraft, is $80K or $85K, and after FDP and other overtime a Year 1 guy average what you make at Year 5 as a Captain.
and if you want 15 days guarantee per month, 7 on 7 off, schedule set, predicted, for the next 3-4 years if you want, you'll make min. guarantee $65K Year 1 and get around $100K with FDP and overtime. So, not even close, especially PSA where you guys are struggling to fly 75 hrs/month.
Anyway, I am getting off track. My point was yes, NJA is not at all like the majors/legacy but when people say it's so much better at the major, I am supposing that they are comparing with the majors/legacy, not the regionals. So, we agree
Second, I never said you can’t make significantly more at NJA than a regional. My argument was that the guys that make significantly more are flying their butt off which is what you kinda hinted at. I’ve read these threads. A few guys on here have said a little more than half of the NJA pilots fly the 7/7 schedule. Compared to that.... PSA is only slightly less in pay. Republic and Endeavor are pretty much on par while having more days off of your choosing. It’s more of an apples/oranges comparison but I would also argue the Republic and Endeavor pilots are making more over a 5-7 year time span since half of that time is on captain pay. Of course NJA captain pay is quite a bit more but who cares if you’re looking to move on in 5 years. Just like I don’t care about Legacy wide body pay. I’ll likely retire before my seniority can hold it.
Like I also said, career wise NJA is a no brainer. If you’re looking at 5-7 years or less present day regionals give NJA a run for their money especially if you want more schedule flexibility. And the pay will continue to go up for another few years.
Edit* actually looks like 5 year captain pay at NJA is about 20k less than what the Republic and Endeavor guys are making at 5 years unless you want pick up extra flying.
Last edited by Thedude86; 11-20-2019 at 08:50 PM.
11-21-2019, 01:56 AM
#37
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Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by Silver02ex
We have a some FO here at Spirit that left Netjets and are now commuters. The most common answer that I get when I asked them why the left, was the upgrade time.
That’s a bold move.
To be on reserve with a commute as a new hire at Spirit only to upgrade at Spirit years later and be on reserve again post upgrade.
The remaining pre 2015 FOs at NetJets will be upgraded in 3 years or less at the current rate of upgrades... less when AQP kicks in if management decides to reassign excess sim time set aside for recurrent training to upgrades.
When upgrade becomes 6-7 years then for a 2015 NJA hire, what will the argument be then concerning stagnancy as a reason to leave NetJets.
It’s coming.
11-21-2019, 05:15 AM
#38
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: PIC Challenger 605
Posts: 454
Originally Posted by DH2time
The attrition rate of pilots with less than 5 years is just a shade under 35 percent. That’s your answer I think.
11-21-2019, 05:45 AM
#39
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Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by SrfNFly227
I'd be curious how many that are leaving are retired 121 who are finally done with the career vs younger guys who are moving on to something else.
11-21-2019, 06:43 AM
#40
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Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 131
Originally Posted by Retractable
I know a few FOs who left for Spirit months before upgrade here.
That’s a bold move.
To be on reserve with a commute as a new hire at Spirit only to upgrade at Spirit years later and be on reserve again post upgrade.
The remaining pre 2015 FOs at NetJets will be upgraded in 3 years or less at the current rate of upgrades... less when AQP kicks in if management decides to reassign excess sim time set aside for recurrent training to upgrades.
When upgrade becomes 6-7 years then for a 2015 NJA hire, what will the argument be then concerning stagnancy as a reason to leave NetJets.
It’s coming.
That’s a bold move.
To be on reserve with a commute as a new hire at Spirit only to upgrade at Spirit years later and be on reserve again post upgrade.
The remaining pre 2015 FOs at NetJets will be upgraded in 3 years or less at the current rate of upgrades... less when AQP kicks in if management decides to reassign excess sim time set aside for recurrent training to upgrades.
When upgrade becomes 6-7 years then for a 2015 NJA hire, what will the argument be then concerning stagnancy as a reason to leave NetJets.
It’s coming.
I would argue many reasons.
One is QOL is subjective but is so much better when one feels they have control over when and where they work. You need to be at football game to coach the kids at at 1800 you can arrange that at a 121 scheduled carrier, no such luck at NJA.
Two, the pay as a senior FO at NK is, talking to the FOs that jumpseat with us, above that of 7/7 pay at NJA for a captain for same amount of days.
Three, Retirement income is a 100 times better at all majors than at NJA. That’s figuratively not literally please...
Four, planning your career progression is easier at a 121 carrier as you know at age 65/67 they punch out while at NJA you got gunners approaching 85 still chugging along.
Lastly, off topic but on the major forums you rarely run into cheerleaders for the company that try to blow sunshine up your butt. It’s honest discussion about the good and the bad about a company. Once again it’s an honest discussion and no lies.
Take care brah!
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